Very disappointed.....

[crochetkim]

I'm posting this with a very heavy heart. I am a single mother of two. I'm trying very hard to support my kids, like any other mother.

 

Just two weeks' ago, I started selling the most darling little set of infant tank tops. But, no sooner did I fill the orders did I find out that someone took that leaflet and turned around an emailed it to someone. And, that someone has now emailed it to hundreds of people on the internet. Two weeks on the market and I've already been stolen from so many times that I'm not sure that anyone would want to buy the leaflet at this time.

 

I'm so sad. I'm an independent designer. It's not like someone has stolen from a big conglomerate like Time Warner or something. It's like money has been stolen directly from me. Women don't usually do this to other women. Women have hard jobs, trying to support families AND run their homes AND raise their children. We KNOW how hard it is to make it. So, why is this acceptable with crochet patterns?

 

Imagine yourself, working away at your job and you run out to the grocery store on payday and stock up your refrigerator and cabinets. Now, imagine me, sneaking into your home while you're sleeping and taking all that food and bringing it over to my house. It's the same thing!

 

Please, please don't steal from independent designers. Not only is it illegal, but it's just morally wrong.

 

I'm not saying that everyone does this. But, it just took that one person. That's all it takes! My business is dependent on sales, like any other business. Once those sales are taken away, I can't design any longer. If you like my patterns so much, you will respect copyright and not "share" the patterns. If you do, I will have to close my business and do something else.

 

Even copying and sharing leaflets from publishers like Annie's Attic hurts the designers. Did you know that the designers only make a royalty off the sales of the leaflets? Even then, the designer is dependent on the sales of the leaflet in order to get an income. So, if you think you're only hurting a big business, you're wrong. If no one buys the leaflet because it's been pirated all over the internet, the designer gets nothing.

 

I'm sorry to be venting like this. Honestly, I really am. But, I was devastated yesterday when I received the email saying that a couple of Yahoo groups had received my pattern leaflet illegally (after just two weeks of publication).

[LadyyOftheOak]

These type of people really bother me. They claim that they can't afford to buy a pattern but they can afford their cigarettes, lattés, and other waste of money items! I have a very limited budget but if I really want a pattern, I'll find the money for it. Most crochet patterns are not that expensive ($5 or less). Don't give in to these people, report them to the administrators.

 

They claim poverty and yet can afford a computer and internet connection? Anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

[angelfire]

I am so sorry that this has happened to you...Some people don't understand that copyright patterns are some designers only income...

[sakurasaku]

Amy and Kim, thanks! That definitely helps.

[sakurasaku]

I have a question about "out of print" patterns.

 

In the past, I've bought old magazines through ebay if I wanted a particular pattern published in it. I have been lucky so far that I could find them for purchase. But if I can't, how can I find if the pattern is still "in print"?

 

In any case, according to the information on knitty, it doesn't seem that just because a pattern is out of print, it doesn't mean that you can reproduce it for the public to use (see under "Deceptively short answers..." answer number 4 about vintage patterns).

 

Kim, I am so sorry that this happened to you. You should be fairly compensated for your creativity...

[AuntyM]

EDITED BY ADMIN TO ADD: We have received written permission via email from Sue for the entire text of this post to be reprinted here at Crochetville.

 

 

I want to share with you what Sue (webmaster at crochetandknitting.com) posted on her forum. I hope it is okay for me to post this.

 

IMPORTANT:- Please do not ask for, nor share, in-print copyrighted patterns. This forum is for helping each other to find patterns on-line and old out of print patterns. Thank you.

 

webmaster@crochetandknitting.com

Message: I have an important notice at the top of the forum about not asking for nor sharing copyrighted patterns. These patterns are still in print and the designer is earning money for their work.

 

If they are not being paid for their work, then they will no longer have the incentive to design these wonderful patterns that we enjoy.

 

I know that no one is doing this intentionally. Sometimes our location makes it impossible to get the latest patterns and people do like to help others. However, I don't want anyone to get into any trouble by viotating copyright laws and I want the designers to receive payment for their work.

 

It is Ok to sell your pattern books if you no longer want them. You can do that on ebay or here. Any transactions by others here are between the buyer and seller. I cannot intervene for you.

 

So if you unknowlingly ask for a pattern that is still in print, you may receive a friendly reminder from one of us about the status of that pattern. I don't know about all the new patterns that are still in print, so I am grateful for those who do and help to inform everyone on the forum.

 

As for older, out of print books in which the copyrights has expired, it is Ok to share those. You will find many of these already posted online. Check out some of the pattern directories.

 

There are many, many patterns available for free online. We can help each other to find these as it is sometimes frustrating to do a search and not find what we are looking for.

 

Even though I thought I was quite good at finding patterns online, there are times when I come up empty. Then someone will post a link here to the type of pattern that I had tried to find at one time. Then I wonder "how in the world did she find that".

 

New patterns are being posted online all the time. Some members here are very good at picking up on these and let us know where to find them.

 

Another note, when you have found a pattern online, please post only the link to it. Do not copy and paste the pattern as the web site owner would like for you to visit their site to get the free pattern.

 

If you have designed your own pattern and would like to post it here, that is OK.

 

Also, if you need help in understanding the instructions of a pattern, whether new, old or online, it is Ok to ask for help. Someone who has made the pattern, or is good at figuring out instructions may be able to help.

 

Plus, we can also talk about our crafts here even if we aren't looking for help with any patterns.

 

Thank you! I appreciate the wonderful group of people who use this forum.

 

Sue

CrochetandKnitting.com

[tiggerhale]

I'll be brief as I think most of how I feel has been covered.

 

I did have an experience in another group where I posted I was looking for a certain pattern. One of the replies was to an Ebay Auction. I looked at it but didn't want to purchase. However, I did use the photos as a guide and created my own item (it was for a birthday gift). I then posted pics as I was so proud of myself for "winging it". The person who posted the link to the auction sent me an email ASKING if I would SHARE the pattern I bought off ebay! She stated that she "SHARES" with lots of folks and made it sound like it was no big deal. 1) Now, if I paid for something, WHY WOULD I GIVE IT TO YOU FOR FREE??? - Ok, taking a deep breath, getting a bit rilled up here - 2) when I explained I didn't buy the pattern but made it up, she then asked if I wrote it down; if so, would I SHARE??

 

I'm sure you all can guess what happened there. I was nice. I let it go after venting to husband. Few weeks later came across an awesome write up about copyrights (here) then contacted the administrator and she reposted the copyright info on the group.

 

Ok, so much for brief. Just feel passionate about this issue...

[AuntyM]

There are a number of Crochet Message Boards / Forums on the internet.

A LOT of people ask for (copies) of patterns which are currently in print.

I myself have emailed the webmaster of several of these forums, to complain about people asking for patterns (currently in print), and several of the webmasters have emailed me to say that they will put up a notice not to ask for copies of patterns, and to my delight, this has been done.

 

However what bugs me is not only that people ignore "the rule" and still ask for patterns, but the people who reply and SEND IT TO THEM!!! Their post usually says "pattern sent."

There is one lady on one particular site that posts quite frequently and she always says that she "lost the bid on eBay" and does anyone have that pattern? Personally I think she should bid higher! LOL

 

My feeling is, that I paid for my patterns, and why should I send them (for free) to someone I don't even know???? If I see a posting asking for a pattern I sometimes reply and quote the Webmaster's rule about asking for patterns. Some people either don't read the rules or chose to ignore them.

 

It's perfectly okay to send a link to a pattern if it's on the internet, like a yarn company website.

[Amy]

I have a question about "out of print" patterns.

 

In any case, according to the information on knitty, it doesn't seem that just because a pattern is out of print, it doesn't mean that you can reproduce it for the public to use (see under "Deceptively short answers..." answer number 4 about vintage patterns).

 

Copyright does not expire just because a book is no longer being printed. Copyright law still applies in its entirety to books that are out of print.

 

It's easier to understand when you think of it in relation to magazines. After all, a magazine issue is only printed for a short period of time. The copyright on a spring issue does not expire, for example, just because the company is no longer printing copies of that issue and has moved on to print the fall issue.

 

Hope this helps!

[tropicallie]

I recently bought a pattern that was "locked" - you needed a password to open it. The password was my credit card #. I thought that was a GREAT idea. I mean, who's going to email a pattern AND their CC# to 100's of strangers? One of the big e-book sites I go to does the same thing.

 

A note to the moderators here - you may or may not be aware of this. I have only posted two of my finished garments here and both times I was deluged with people PMing me to"share" (illegally) the pattern with them. I was shocked, to say the least. I belong to several other craft groups (machine and hand knitting, beading) and have NEVER encountered this. I made it clear these were not my patterns to share and directed them to the designer's site to purchase. A few actually persisted with another email pleading "poverty" and financial woes and PLEASE PLEASE would I share this pattern. I haven't posted any pics since. Could there maybe be a way to report these people to the moderators and perhaps have their privileges here revoked?

 

Kim - it really upsets me that this happened to you. Your designs that I've purchased are clear and concise and creative and it's evident that you put in a lot of time and effort to produce a quality product.

[nightowl]

When it comes to the PDF patterns that some designers sell on the internet. I think it would be nice to somehow make a nice watermarked background that cannot be changed or erased, and also doesnt interfere with reading the text of the patterns, that would say:

 

"this pattern was sold to *buyer's name* by *seller's name*, if you see it posted for free anywhere on the internet please contact *seller's name*". (it would probably be a pain for the designer to set it up like that, but I'd love to see the face of a Pattern Piggie, opening up a crochet pattern she just bought and seeing that background)

Just the other day I bought a PDF pattern from a designer that came with each page of instructions watermarked with my name and address. It could be clearly seen on screen and I wondered how it would print, so I tried it several ways.

 

I found I had to actually select "Document and Markups" in the Adobe Reader "Print. . . " dialog to get the watermark to show. Even then, using the non-Postscript driver for my printer, all that was readable was part of one word. With the Postscript driver the whole thing printed, but again pretty light. If I selected "Document" (the default) in the dialog, the watermark wasn't printed at all. So I'm not convinced this is the answer.

 

Perhaps having the marking there would deter people from posting the pattern file to the net, or Yahoo groups, but I'm not so sure they wouldn't still do it, if only for a limited time. By the time the designer heard about it, the pattern could be gone and printed copies are untraceable. It doesn't stop someone emailing it to all their friends (who presumably aren't going to turn them in) or printing it and making a dozen unmarked copies to share with the ladies in their crochet group. . .

I think they should also figure out how to publish pattern leaflets on paper that cannot be scanned.

I'd be very unhappy if that ever became common practice. It's unfair to honest customers who like to make a working copy to carry around or make notes on, and also to people who need to enlarge charts etc. to be able to use the pattern.

 

I don't know what the answer is except to keep on hammering home the message that "sharing" is just plain stealing. . .

[yarnyviolet]

There is nothing more frustrating than people doing things because they can despite what it does to others. I hate feeling helpless like you must feel. Personally if I am too broke to buy a pattern I try to make up my own. I can always frog it if it doesn't work and am only out my time. That is what lots of women my grandma's age used to do apparently.

 

I will only watch movies that I have purchased and when my husband has ever brought home a pirate I get upset with him and he hasn't done it for years now. I buy my music off itunes. I have paid for every pattern unless it was a real freebie.

 

My dh has a story that is a bit off topic. He went with some co-workers to Burger King and it was really busy so they sat down without their order and the guy brought it out to them. The guy had forgot to get their money and dh mentioned this to him and gave him the money. His co-workers actually wanted him to pay them back because if he hadn't said anything they would have got their lunch for free.

 

I try to teach my kids how you need to pay for things and how stealing involves can be all different things (like what happened to you). It is the only thing I can do and I try to show by example.

 

I hope you work this out.

 

Rachel

[tygger428]

Kim, I'm so sorry people are doing this to you. That kind of theft is exactly why I don't attempt to sell any design I come up with (whatever I write or graph up I keep to myself). One designer who has taught workshops in my local CGOA chapter have had their design "lifted" from the project worksheet, which all of us paid her for, typed up, and emailed everywhere and anywhere. She now refuses to teach workshops, especially free ones.

 

This kind of bad behavior on the part of the few, discourages designers from coming up with new innovative designs, and thus we all suffer from lack of good patterns to do. If designers refuse to design, we will have only what is already out there to crochet/knit. And that would be too sad to contemplate.

[beth eathorne]

i would like to first thank everyone who designs patterns that are posted for free.. i love to crochet and could not have begun to pay for all the wonderful patterns i have found thru everyone here...i hope that no one is so put off by the theft of their work that it keeps them from doing what we all love and that is crocheting and sharing those things we make with others

[jscase]

Kim, thank you for posting this for us all to read ... for some of us who are more beginners than professionals, it helps make us aware ... it really hits home who we would hurt if we were to use someone's ideas illegally. Thank you for sharing your experience!

[theworm]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a forum here at Crochetville where designers could safely sell patterns. A place for members only - which would limit sales somewhat, but members could have to sign a "contract" to follow the rules to enter that forum, and members who break the rules could be banned.

 

I'm a member of another message board - not crochet related, and we have a forum like that - if you break the rules you're out. The contract is clear.

[Momcrochets]

I feel your pain. I've made several designs. Submitted a few, but never self-published (not published elsewhere either. maybe I'll put some up here once I've been here a while). Mostly I've not published for the same reason you've just experienced. I have a few printed up for sale at my LYS, but I know at least one person copied and shared it...who knows how many more that I don't know about. It's enormously frustrating. And it's just wrong. So wrong.

You know what gets me? We've had customers bring us a book of our shelf and ask us if we'd make a copy of a pattern for them!!! Hello?!?

[crochetkim]

I want to thank each and every one of you, once again, for all your kind words and responses here to my original post. Thank you! It makes me feel a lot better knowing that I and other independent designers like me have your support.

 

The only way to combat piracy is through education. If education doesn't do it, then be sure to let others know. For instance, I have an entire three pages of designers listed in the resource section of CrochetKim.com. Let the designers know! Let the publishers know!

 

I myself do this! Once, I even got a lovely (and I do mean LOVELY) gift of two hardcover books just for reporting piracy to one company!

 

It benefits everyone to try to stop copyright theft. When someone has been desperately looking for a pattern, I have gone out of my way to locate a source, or two or three, for them. There is no need to obtain it illegally.

 

And, I'm sure these same people wouldn't dare steal crochet hooks, scissors and yarn from their local yarn shop. Well, I remember reading that someone did..... thousands of dollars worth of yarn....really funny story in the newspaper. But, I digress.

 

If the crochet patterns are difficult to find, why is that? Could it be because companies have gone out of business because they can't make any money? Could that be because of copyright theft?

 

A lot of people who distribute these patterns simply don't realize. So, please, if you are faced with a situation, help them out as much as you can, legally. Use the opportunity to educate. That is key. There are so many people out there willing to design really amazing patterns but are scared to share them with the world because of the fear involved. I've seen this just in reading this thread.

 

And, I realize what we are all dealing with. We are crafters! Our hearts go into the making of things and then GIVING them away! That's what we do. We share our craft with people. It warms our hearts to give something to someone who really enjoys it. But, the giving has to stop there. The giving away of patterns is just not the same thing. It falls into the nasty realm of stealing.

 

I know that it's my choice to have decided on this profession. I realize that it's one of those "starving artists" type of professions. And, I haven't given up yet....just wait until you see my new sweater design! But, no one wants to work long and hard in their profession only to have their world turned upside down by someone stealing from them.

[ferosah]

Hi Kim,

I am so sorry to hear this has happened to you. It's really unbelievable the gall of some people. To steal from us designers and think it's their given rights to share our hard work for free to everyone they know. Them turn around and call us names and think that we shouldn't make a fuss because we have money and sharing our patterns for free is the right thing to do. My heartfelt sympathies to you girlfriend. I hope you get this matter resolved.

Hugs

Ferosa

[brenmichelle20]

I am sorry about that...I hate it when others think it is fair to do that to someone. I learned the hardway when designing for magazines...I won't show my designs or pics till the pattern is shown in the publication....

[shortylam]

OMG, I feel so bad for you! As my favorite professor said, "Listen to your grandmother: don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal", stealing is one of the biggest crime in my profession. One who commits fraudulent of data (as we call it in science) has a big possibility to lose everything.

 

This is an eye-opening experience to me as I never knew it could hurt the designer that bad. I can tell you all from my stand point of a poor student who lives in stipen (which conveniently is set about 25 dollars higher than the low income rate in California) I cannot afford patterns that I have to pay. Crochet is the cheapest hobby that I can afford with my income I guess. However, I never thought of stealing other people's patterns and distribute them to others (thanks God for that!). I prefer to use free patterns from crochet me and in this forum. I have to tell everybody that I am always thankful for the free patterns that I receive and also respect the talent of the people who design them.

 

For those who have friends that borrow books from library and copy the patterns, there is another way out: used book from amazon.com. They do have nice prices for used book. I have to tell y'all that if I can afford used crochet books from amazon.com, you can too!

[kahud48]

I have just been looking into this and a dear lady has shared with me that I can watermark my patterns. She said that greatly helps.

 

If you were sending out a lot of print patterns, instead of pdf files, I think I'd look into "secure" type paper. I don't know what the proper name would be, but it's the kind of stuff that doctors use for their prescription pads or a lot of colleges use for transcripts. It has a lightly printed background, so it doesn't interfere with what's printed on the page, but if it's copied, then the background shows up as "COPY" or "ILLEGAL". But, that would probably only work for paper copies

[kahud48]

I am so sorry to hear this Kim.

And for all others, this is very plainly said at her site:

Quote:

Each category includes some complimentary crochet patterns. Please feel free to use these patterns for your personal use only. They are not to be reproduced in any form for sale, posted on a website, or distributed in any way without prior permission from me.

____________________________________________

 

 

This is enough for anyone (got to say it) with half a brain to understand just what it means.......DUH!!

 

Don't you know that if she wants to now, she can prosecute you?

 

Was it worth it then?

 

PS Back when I first got on the net and had just started back to crochet after years of not.... I have to admit, there were some lady's that sent patterns to me by e-mail. At the time I didn't even have a clue that it wes not legal. As I was on the ville, I began to see lots of folk doing just that same thing, heck, I came on here tonight to answer a PM, and guess what, someone was asking me if I still had a pattern....it was plain to see what they were wanting for me to do in the PM.

 

After I designed a few patterns of my own, something similar happened to (the same Identical thing pretty much), I could well understand just why those laws where put in place. It is very right that we be protected of what we have designed because of all our hard work and the cost to us that we have to recoop sometimes in our craft and business. Stolen and shared all over the net and elsewhere is plain wrong, all know it.

 

I have since kept my patterns and not shared them at all on the net or elsewhere til they are protected.

 

And yes, to the three of you who have PM'ed me in the past three months to share a pattern, don't ask me any more.

And to those of you who sent me patterns when I was first new to the net and didn't even have a clue,

don't you understand (even though you meant it to be a kindness) that it was truely hurting those who designed them?

[julie5813]

If you were sending out a lot of print patterns, instead of pdf files, I think I'd look into "secure" type paper. I don't know what the proper name would be, but it's the kind of stuff that doctors use for their prescription pads or a lot of colleges use for transcripts. It has a lightly printed background, so it doesn't interfere with what's printed on the page, but if it's copied, then the background shows up as "COPY" or "ILLEGAL". But, that would probably only work for paper copies

[crochetsal]

Kim, it made me nauseous reading your email. I'd like to say I can't believe someone would do that, but you and I both know there are a few out there that will.

Hopefully, someone sets that person straight and she feels guilty about stealing from an honest person. Dare I dream?

[crochetkim]

Thank you again to everyone who have responded! You are all wonderful to me. I sincerely appreciate it.

 

I have been thinking of a thank you note for purchases (just in jest).

 

Thank you so much for purchasing this pattern. I appreciate your business! Please know that all proceeds are going to a worthy cause. The rent. The electric. And, the grocery bill. And, it might even go for diapers for the baby! My family thanks you for supporting independent designers!

 

I'm not trying to make light of the situation. But, honestly, this is my only income.