Very disappointed.....

[crochetkim]

I'm posting this with a very heavy heart. I am a single mother of two. I'm trying very hard to support my kids, like any other mother.

 

Just two weeks' ago, I started selling the most darling little set of infant tank tops. But, no sooner did I fill the orders did I find out that someone took that leaflet and turned around an emailed it to someone. And, that someone has now emailed it to hundreds of people on the internet. Two weeks on the market and I've already been stolen from so many times that I'm not sure that anyone would want to buy the leaflet at this time.

 

I'm so sad. I'm an independent designer. It's not like someone has stolen from a big conglomerate like Time Warner or something. It's like money has been stolen directly from me. Women don't usually do this to other women. Women have hard jobs, trying to support families AND run their homes AND raise their children. We KNOW how hard it is to make it. So, why is this acceptable with crochet patterns?

 

Imagine yourself, working away at your job and you run out to the grocery store on payday and stock up your refrigerator and cabinets. Now, imagine me, sneaking into your home while you're sleeping and taking all that food and bringing it over to my house. It's the same thing!

 

Please, please don't steal from independent designers. Not only is it illegal, but it's just morally wrong.

 

I'm not saying that everyone does this. But, it just took that one person. That's all it takes! My business is dependent on sales, like any other business. Once those sales are taken away, I can't design any longer. If you like my patterns so much, you will respect copyright and not "share" the patterns. If you do, I will have to close my business and do something else.

 

Even copying and sharing leaflets from publishers like Annie's Attic hurts the designers. Did you know that the designers only make a royalty off the sales of the leaflets? Even then, the designer is dependent on the sales of the leaflet in order to get an income. So, if you think you're only hurting a big business, you're wrong. If no one buys the leaflet because it's been pirated all over the internet, the designer gets nothing.

 

I'm sorry to be venting like this. Honestly, I really am. But, I was devastated yesterday when I received the email saying that a couple of Yahoo groups had received my pattern leaflet illegally (after just two weeks of publication).

[AuntyM]

EDITED BY ADMIN TO ADD: We have received written permission via email from Sue for the entire text of this post to be reprinted here at Crochetville.

 

 

I want to share with you what Sue (webmaster at crochetandknitting.com) posted on her forum. I hope it is okay for me to post this.

 

IMPORTANT:- Please do not ask for, nor share, in-print copyrighted patterns. This forum is for helping each other to find patterns on-line and old out of print patterns. Thank you.

 

webmaster@crochetandknitting.com

Message: I have an important notice at the top of the forum about not asking for nor sharing copyrighted patterns. These patterns are still in print and the designer is earning money for their work.

 

If they are not being paid for their work, then they will no longer have the incentive to design these wonderful patterns that we enjoy.

 

I know that no one is doing this intentionally. Sometimes our location makes it impossible to get the latest patterns and people do like to help others. However, I don't want anyone to get into any trouble by viotating copyright laws and I want the designers to receive payment for their work.

 

It is Ok to sell your pattern books if you no longer want them. You can do that on ebay or here. Any transactions by others here are between the buyer and seller. I cannot intervene for you.

 

So if you unknowlingly ask for a pattern that is still in print, you may receive a friendly reminder from one of us about the status of that pattern. I don't know about all the new patterns that are still in print, so I am grateful for those who do and help to inform everyone on the forum.

 

As for older, out of print books in which the copyrights has expired, it is Ok to share those. You will find many of these already posted online. Check out some of the pattern directories.

 

There are many, many patterns available for free online. We can help each other to find these as it is sometimes frustrating to do a search and not find what we are looking for.

 

Even though I thought I was quite good at finding patterns online, there are times when I come up empty. Then someone will post a link here to the type of pattern that I had tried to find at one time. Then I wonder "how in the world did she find that".

 

New patterns are being posted online all the time. Some members here are very good at picking up on these and let us know where to find them.

 

Another note, when you have found a pattern online, please post only the link to it. Do not copy and paste the pattern as the web site owner would like for you to visit their site to get the free pattern.

 

If you have designed your own pattern and would like to post it here, that is OK.

 

Also, if you need help in understanding the instructions of a pattern, whether new, old or online, it is Ok to ask for help. Someone who has made the pattern, or is good at figuring out instructions may be able to help.

 

Plus, we can also talk about our crafts here even if we aren't looking for help with any patterns.

 

Thank you! I appreciate the wonderful group of people who use this forum.

 

Sue

CrochetandKnitting.com

[tiggerhale]

I'll be brief as I think most of how I feel has been covered.

 

I did have an experience in another group where I posted I was looking for a certain pattern. One of the replies was to an Ebay Auction. I looked at it but didn't want to purchase. However, I did use the photos as a guide and created my own item (it was for a birthday gift). I then posted pics as I was so proud of myself for "winging it". The person who posted the link to the auction sent me an email ASKING if I would SHARE the pattern I bought off ebay! She stated that she "SHARES" with lots of folks and made it sound like it was no big deal. 1) Now, if I paid for something, WHY WOULD I GIVE IT TO YOU FOR FREE??? - Ok, taking a deep breath, getting a bit rilled up here - 2) when I explained I didn't buy the pattern but made it up, she then asked if I wrote it down; if so, would I SHARE??

 

I'm sure you all can guess what happened there. I was nice. I let it go after venting to husband. Few weeks later came across an awesome write up about copyrights (here) then contacted the administrator and she reposted the copyright info on the group.

 

Ok, so much for brief. Just feel passionate about this issue...

[AuntyM]

There are a number of Crochet Message Boards / Forums on the internet.

A LOT of people ask for (copies) of patterns which are currently in print.

I myself have emailed the webmaster of several of these forums, to complain about people asking for patterns (currently in print), and several of the webmasters have emailed me to say that they will put up a notice not to ask for copies of patterns, and to my delight, this has been done.

 

However what bugs me is not only that people ignore "the rule" and still ask for patterns, but the people who reply and SEND IT TO THEM!!! Their post usually says "pattern sent."

There is one lady on one particular site that posts quite frequently and she always says that she "lost the bid on eBay" and does anyone have that pattern? Personally I think she should bid higher! LOL

 

My feeling is, that I paid for my patterns, and why should I send them (for free) to someone I don't even know???? If I see a posting asking for a pattern I sometimes reply and quote the Webmaster's rule about asking for patterns. Some people either don't read the rules or chose to ignore them.

 

It's perfectly okay to send a link to a pattern if it's on the internet, like a yarn company website.

[ErinLindsey]

Wow, that is so horrible. I can't believe this happens. I figured someone might share a pattern with a close friend but to post to an online forum is horrible. That the group intends for this to happen is basically organized crime. I would definitely let yahoo know about this.

 

Yahoo knows about the groups that do the stealing, but whenever they shut one down, it will start back up again in a few days under a new name and will operate until someone else reports them. Pattern Piggies are very cautious about who they let into their groups, so it's hard to infiltrate one.

 

There is a Yahoo group that has a lot of designers for several different needlecrafts on it that is trying to stop copyright theft. I'm on that group. I'm learning a lot on how to fight copyright theft there...even tho I'm not a designer, I feel like I want to protect them. If we dont protect the designers then we're screwed when it comes to getting new stuff to make.

 

Just like you have to feed your kids so they'll grow up big and strong, you have to feed your designers with praise, feedback, money, food, yarn...otherwise they'll wither up and die (or at the very least quit designing)

[gaylefrancisdesigns]

I am on a Yahoo Group that is trying to fight the Pattern Piggies from stealing from designers. (Kim, are you on that group already??)

 

 

Which group is this? I'm curious to join, as I'm a new "for sale" pattern designer, and would like to be of help.

 

Gayle

[tropicallie]

Amy - thanks for your replies. When the incidents I described took place, I was a new member here and I wonder if that's why I was targeted. I didn't know if that type of behavior was "normal" for this board and the requests that were PM'd to me were so matter-of-fact - as if they EXPECTED me to comply. Anyway, thanks for letting me know this isn't tolerated and I can report these to you and I will do so in the future.

[Amy]

I know it's upsetting to many of us to know that fellow Villagers are pushing other members so hard to break federal copyright laws and Crochetville forum guidelines. However, let's try to remember not to break any guidelines ourselves by resorting to name-calling or flaming these members in return, okay?

 

It's all right to point out that they are breaking our guidelines, as long as it's done civilly and respectfully. But let's remember not to resort to name-calling or inflammatory language in response.

 

Hopefully, members will stop requesting that other members violate copyright law and/or Crochetville guidelines if they realize that we encourage our members to report such behavior, and that we do not consider it "tattling."

 

Again, if you are not familiar with Crochetville's guidelines, please take some time to read them here. The guidelines really are simple, straightforward, and easy to follow. We expect all our members to be familiar with them and follow them if they want to remain members here. We do extend leniency and grace on first offenses, especially for our new members who haven't had time yet to really become familiar with Crochetville.

 

I think I've been very clear on this, but just in case, the problem is not with members who make an accidental or inadvertent mistake every now and then and end up violating a guideline as a result. Those members will just get a friendly reminder about the guidelines. No big deal. It's only the repeat offenders, who keep doing things after admins and countless others have let them know they're breaking the guidelines, who have something to worry about. 99.999% of our members have absolutely nothing to worry about. But those of you who have repeatedly been asking others to break our guidelines, I would suggest you stop this behavior before it gets reported and you end up losing your Crochetville member privileges.

[yarnyviolet]

I don't mean to be unsympathetic but most people aren't as poor as they think they are to justify getting patterns for free. The first thing my dh said when I told him about this is that it takes a while to make most of the things so many of these patterns that are stolen aren't even used. These people should make granny square afghans or other things that take a while to make but that you can buy yarn for as you go along. I know for me it takes a couple of weeks to make most things so people really only need to pay $6.50 or whatever once a month. Around the price of a fancy coffee ONCE A MONTH. People just need imagination. Like they say necessity is the mother of invention. They should design their own patterns. Instead they spend hours on the internet looking for pirates.

 

There isn't a lot you can do. Eventually as we educate kids about how pirating is wrong it will might not be so accepted.

 

I believe the what goes around comes around though.

 

Rachel

[cat3crazy]

A few actually persisted with another email pleading "poverty" and financial woes and PLEASE PLEASE would I share this pattern.

 

These type of people really bother me. They claim that they can't afford to buy a pattern but they can afford their cigarettes, lattés, and other waste of money items! I have a very limited budget but if I really want a pattern, I'll find the money for it. Most crochet patterns are not that expensive ($5 or less). Don't give in to these people, report them to the administrators.

[crochetkim]

I recently bought a pattern that was "locked" - you needed a password to open it. The password was my credit card #. I thought that was a GREAT idea. I mean, who's going to email a pattern AND their CC# to 100's of strangers? One of the big e-book sites I go to does the same thing.

 

A note to the moderators here - you may or may not be aware of this. I have only posted two of my finished garments here and both times I was deluged with people PMing me to"share" (illegally) the pattern with them. I was shocked, to say the least. I belong to several other craft groups (machine and hand knitting, beading) and have NEVER encountered this. I made it clear these were not my patterns to share and directed them to the designer's site to purchase. A few actually persisted with another email pleading "poverty" and financial woes and PLEASE PLEASE would I share this pattern. I haven't posted any pics since. Could there maybe be a way to report these people to the moderators and perhaps have their privileges here revoked?

 

Kim - it really upsets me that this happened to you. Your designs that I've purchased are clear and concise and creative and it's evident that you put in a lot of time and effort to produce a quality product.

 

Yes, this is incredibly sad. Unfortunately, I had to find out the hard way that people were doing this. ANYONE who posted a reply in one of the threads where I posted a photo was apparently "fair game" for people to say "Oh, did you purchase this pattern? Can you send me the file too?"

 

Reporting people to Admin will go a long way in getting it stopped. I truly hate that people don't feel comfortable with posting photos. That's the funnest part about the board!

 

I'm not a big meanie who is trying to take away the fun from everyone. I'm just a woman, like most everyone on this board (yes, there are men, and I'm not leaving you out!) and I'm simply trying to make a living and support my children. I'll never be rich. But, I was hoping to, at the very least, be able to live.

[Amy]

A note to the moderators here - you may or may not be aware of this. I have only posted two of my finished garments here and both times I was deluged with people PMing me to"share" (illegally) the pattern with them. I was shocked, to say the least. I belong to several other craft groups (machine and hand knitting, beading) and have NEVER encountered this. I made it clear these were not my patterns to share and directed them to the designer's site to purchase. A few actually persisted with another email pleading "poverty" and financial woes and PLEASE PLEASE would I share this pattern. I haven't posted any pics since. Could there maybe be a way to report these people to the moderators and perhaps have their privileges here revoked?

 

Tropicallie, I am incredibly shocked that ANY Crochetville member would do this. We have done everything it is possible to do to educate our members about copyright laws and the guidelines we have developed. This is ABSOLUTELY not condoned here at Crochetville. Our forum guidelines specifically state that it is a violation of our forum guidelines to ask other members to send you "pirated" copies of patterns.

 

Our guidelines also tell members who think they have encountered something that is a forum guideline violation (post, PM, email) to report that to me via PM.

 

If anyone receives a PM that you believe violates our forum guidelines in any way, PLEASE forward that PM to me. PMs are private, and administrators do not have a way to know what is being sent in PMs. We can only address these situations if we know about them, and the only way we can know about them is if the person receiving the PM forwards it to us. Before we can take action against a forum member, we have to have *proof* of their actions. The forwarded PM serves as date-stamped proof of what was sent from their account.

 

Just PMing us to tell us you received a PM from someone requesting a pattern won't work. You must forward the actual PM or email you receive to me.

 

Once I get that forwarded copy, I'll be happy to take action and enforce our guidelines.

 

Once we are made aware that a member has requested a "pirated" copy of a pattern via PM, we will contact that member and let them know why making that request is a violation of our forum guidelines. After we have educated a member about this issue, repeated violations will result in the member losing their forum privileges.

 

The only way to stop this abuse of Crochetville's services is for our members to band together and notify the administrator team (usually me for the most prompt response right now) of any violations.

[RachelG]

A note to the moderators here - you may or may not be aware of this. I have only posted two of my finished garments here and both times I was deluged with people PMing me to"share" (illegally) the pattern with them. I was shocked, to say the least. I belong to several other craft groups (machine and hand knitting, beading) and have NEVER encountered this. I made it clear these were not my patterns to share and directed them to the designer's site to purchase. A few actually persisted with another email pleading "poverty" and financial woes and PLEASE PLEASE would I share this pattern.

 

Very sad!

[tiggerhale]

I totally agree! I placed an order recently w/craftsdesigned4you - and in my order received a very well written flyer on this issue.

 

Here's the link:

http://www.craftdesigns4you.com/stop.htm

 

I gather that craftdesigns4you sends it w/every order (not a bad idea). There is a printer-friendly version there as well.

 

Perhaps you could use the flyer w/your patterns or online as well...

As it said at the bottom of the flyer:

"If you are a designer, publisher, pattern shop owner, or concerned crafter, you have permission to copy and distribute this letter in its entirety. Help put an end to pattern copyright theft!"

 

It really caught my attention and I've been sharing it w/others and the other online group that I'm in. It caused a real stir there! I think awareness is the key to battling this issue.

[blackpurl]

sorry to hear about this... how awful!

[lhasaapsolady]

Kim I am so sorry that this has happened to you, it was downright stinky of the person that did so. I completely understand the time you took to design the top as I also design, but have never shared because of the reason you said. I have 2 friends who test my patterns and I know they won't share them with anyone.

 

Is there anyway you can possibly notify yahoo that this has occured, and maybe they could put a halt to the post, even though it already went out. At least maybe you could try and stop more people from getting it that way.

 

Please keep designing, not every woman or man out there is a sneaky _____. We know you work extremely hard to raise your children, and we appreciate the work that you do.

[Roli]

Kim, Add me to the list of people who regrets the bad luck you had with copyright violators. I've enjoyed your free patterns for years and have always felt that you've made some lovely ones available for no charge. I just don't understand why somebody would begrudge paying the few dollars for the patterns that are for sale.

[Pam Gillette]

Kim I'm so sorry to hear this, it is not fair and morally wrong and who ever did this doesn't know, care, or understand what they did. You have a ton of support on this forum, I'm sending a big hug from Minnesota to you.

[MamaHooks]

Kim I am sorry that you are dealing with such hurtful people. Although I can not add anything truly useful to this discussion. I can say that I truly feel for you. Please don't let this one incidence stop you from designing and selling your own handiwork. I wish you the best.

[StitchinCindi]

Why not put on the photo the words, not free: or the words, not for resale. If it is in the photo, it can't be cut off if recopied and others will know it was not a free pattern off the Internet.

[Tapanga]

I am sorry this happened to you! But don't forget that for every jerk who would steal a pattern is a nice person who will buy it. Even though I don't design (I wish I could!) I think we all understand how much time, especially with children it takes, how much effort to make sure each stitch is right, and how much money on yarn, websites, research, ect it cost to design these patterns.

I hope this doesn't rob you of the joy of designing and of allowing us to be a part of it. Keep your chin up and don't lower yourself to letting them win.

 

And the thug in me says "You just tell me where I can find them." Grrr grrr Ffftt Fffftt

[MomToLabs]

Oh, Kim, do NOT apologize for venting about this! You are completely, totally allowed to be majorly p***ed off about this.

 

What gets me is that not only is this copying and distribution illegal, but even worse than that, it's WRONG. Honestly, I don't know how these people sleep at night.

 

Please feel free to be angry but I hope you don't quit designing. We need you and other designers to keep on hookin' for those of us who lack your talent!

 

Hugs and sympathy,

 

Susan

[minwifeof4boys]

I am so sorry this happened to you! I agree that this is a real issue... and I admire those who forge ahead despite the piracy...Etaria should be able to help...

 

[cat3crazy]

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who think that, just making a few copies, for friends, shouldn't hurt anybody and there are those that just want something for nothing.

 

I work in a store that sells patterns and I've had women ask me if I would make a copy of a pattern out of a book because they didn't want have to buy the book for just one pattern! I've also had women ask me if the book was available at the local library! But the worst one was the woman that got right in my face and said "$5.00 for a piece of paper!" (her friend was purchasing a crochet pattern that had been designed by a local crocheter).

 

I understand people wanting to get their money worth but not at the expense of others, that's just stealing.

 

Hang in there!

[Crochet Garden]

Ugh... I know how you feel. My patterns are bounced around those groups as well.. and I have actually narrowed in on names etc. Email me dear.. I have some things I have done to help thwart this and will be shutting these groups down as well.

 

I am also going to be starting up a forum for designers of all walks, to collaberate on ways to protect oursleves. I will hopefully get the forum up in the next few days.

 

It is terrible.. and people who do engage in this lack class. Some of them are ignorant and do not know the impact their sharing has, and there are others who genuinely just do not care. But I have a few other ideas.. anyway.. email me if you need an ear and want to chat about what ideas I have.

 

oops forgot my email! lisa AT crochetgarden DOT com

[crochetingmomof4]

So sorry to hear that this happened, Kim. You might want to chat with Lisa of Crochet Garden. She is also a mother of 2 and working so hard to make ends meet through designing crochet patterns. She is thinking up some very creative ways to stop this problem with her patterns!