Old Patterns Keep Resurfacing as Original

[DebraKay]

Have any of you crocheters who have been around awhile, noticed how often an old pattern resurfaces either online or even in a published work as someone's "original." Since my grandma and great aunt crocheted a LOT when I was younger, I still have some of their gifts. I also learned to crochet some of the same things they made. They did not use patterns. They either made them up or just remembered from seeing a crocheted work from a friend, and made their own as near to what they saw as they could. Just this week I have seen 3 patterns claimed as originals by others that my grandma was making before the new "designer" was even born. I don't know who was the very first to make the items, but I am sure it was not the person claiming the design as their own.

 

I was looking for a pattern for a strawberry potholder that uses a doubled pineapple design. I found it in a book put out in 1999. I know I had some of these before I ever got married some 36 years ago, that were made by my grandmother. I was making them myself and sold some at a few craft shows I did in the early 90's. This was an intricate pattern and not one that would be accidently reproduced by more than one person like the little snake bookmarks, easy slippers, or some of the quick potholders.

 

I don't mind that people are bringing back the patterns (I want to make some of those things too) but they might at least say "adapted from an old crochet favorite," or "copied from an anonymous designer." They should know they are not fooling anybody when they claim an oldie but goodie as their own.

 

Just had to get that off my chest. I did make sure to post kudos to the creative designers that do come up with new patterns! I appreciate them and their efforts!

[Katie G]

I agree, it's just plain wrong to claim something as your own design, when it is not, very disrespectful. I'm starting to design some of my own things, but would never claim them as my own because I'm always inspired by other's designs.

 

I also get irritated when I see patterns for sale on Etsy or Ebay that are available free on the net.

[LI Roe]

I agree. It is disrespectful to claim something as your own. I saw an afghan pattern online on one website and then the same exact pattern, word for word on a second website. Both claimed it was their own. Then I purchased a booklet from a major company and the same pattern was in there also. Now I have no idea who actually "designed" it but it showed up in at least three different places and exactly the same wording.

 

If I change around a pattern and give the finished product as a gift, I sometimes have been asked if I have designed it. I honestly answer no, that I am not a designer and use patterns from those who do.

 

LI Roe

[contrary.crocheter]

I agree, it's just plain wrong to claim something as your own design, when it is not, very disrespectful. I'm starting to design some of my own things, but would never claim them as my own because I'm always inspired by other's designs.

 

I also get irritated when I see patterns for sale on Etsy or Ebay that are available free on the net.

AMEN! It is also sad when such talented and generous people feel like they can't share their designs without them being pirated! I remember one designer saying she felt like she had a stalker because the same person kept copying her designs and claiming them as their own and for a while we weren't able to get her beautiful patterns! So disappointing when people have no integrity!

[DebraKay]

I know what you mean. I saw on Ravelry where one designer had been offering several of her patterns for free until someone started stealing the designs and selling them as her own. Then she had to take the free patterns off her site just to try to protect their integrity. I am a firm believer in "what goes around comes around" so eventually folks will get their come-uppance for this thievery. But I am sorry that it takes away from the efforts of others in the meantime.

[mclendon1]

I agree w/ all of the above. I am not a designer, would never claim to be. I don't understand how there are multiple patterns out there of the basic same pattern (only varying by a few stitches) & they are all copyrighted by someone different. I thought It had to be all original to copyright.

[CraftyZone]

I have also seen that too selling free patterns that you get in yarn departments and selling at high prices. Also seen a certain well known designer claim a pattern as hers and sell it for a hefty some of money when the same pattern was made in the 70's and belong to some one else. Have to watch out too people selling pdf patterns that are not there's too they are copies of other people's hard work.

[RoseRed]

I call it scalping. It's is very large pet peeve of mine.

 

What bothers me even more is that the companies pay for the obviously scalped patterns.

 

I could list example after example and know of several 'designers' who make a habit of it.

 

Take a stroll thru The Antique Pattern Library (use foxit instead of adobe) and then take a good look at some of the so-called 'new' doily designs. Adding a popcorn does not make it one's one.

[totalrealtor]

I saw one of Dot Matthews designs, the "Bobble Beauty" hat being sold on Ravelry as this persons original design so I emailed her and added the link to Dots pattern. WELL, I got an earful back-how "didn't I have anything better to do with my time than to annoy her" and "no one really owns a pattern since there are a limited number of stitches and ways to combine them and ....blah, blah, blah"

 

I call it stealing plain and simple!!

[crocheting turtle]

I feel the same way that many of you do. I do not have the talent to make my own patterns. However, I can take a pattern and make interesting adjustments to it. However, I never claim those patterns as my own. I am not even sure that I could ever completely claim my new adjustments as my own. I am sure that someone probably did the same thing that I did.

[Amy]

I agree w/ all of the above. I am not a designer, would never claim to be. I don't understand how there are multiple patterns out there of the basic same pattern (only varying by a few stitches) & they are all copyrighted by someone different. I thought It had to be all original to copyright.

 

Copyright issues can get confusing. What is protected under copyright is the written expression of a particular idea. It is possible for many people to independently come up with the same basic general design. Let's take, for example, a plain scarf made entirely out of double crochet stitches. Say several people came up with a pattern for a 72" long and 8" wide scarf. They each write their instructions individually, take their own photos, and format their document. Each person owns the copyright on their individual pattern.

 

What does this mean? Does it mean that nobody else can ever make a pattern for a basic double crochet scarf in those dimensions? No. Anybody else can make up a pattern like that, as long as they start from scratch. If it's their own original idea, they can still copyright their scarf.

 

Can Designer B take Designer A's written words and use them in Designer B's pattern? No, absolutely no. Designer B must write their own instructions from scratch. Granted, there are only so many ways you can write instructions for such a simple pattern, so some patterns for basic items may appear very, very similar.

 

In fact, it's probably even possible that basic patterns could end up so close that you think they're the same exact pattern, particularly if the designers were following the "style guidelines" provided by a particular publisher.

[Amy]

I feel the same way that many of you do. I do not have the talent to make my own patterns. However, I can take a pattern and make interesting adjustments to it. However, I never claim those patterns as my own. I am not even sure that I could ever completely claim my new adjustments as my own. I am sure that someone probably did the same thing that I did.

 

If you used the actual pattern as your base and made adjustments to it, you couldn't write up a complete pattern and claim it all as your own. If you could write up the adjustments in such a way that anybody reading them would also require a copy of the original pattern in order to make the item, then you could claim the adjustments as your own. Of course, you'd need to give credit to the original pattern and designer so the people reading your adjustments could actually make the item.

 

If you just took inspiration from the original pattern, put it away, then went off and created something totally on your own without looking at the original pattern, you might be able to claim what you made as completely your own. Whenever someone does something like this, and wants to publish their new work as their own, we always recommend to either 1) contact the original designer/publisher to make sure they feel there isn't any copyright infringement or 2) contact an intellectual property attorney for an official legal opinion. If there's ever any question in someone's mind as to whether there's infringement involved in something you want to publish/distribute, then it's always best to ask and get that clarification first. Plus, it's just nice to respect the original designer.

 

Edit to add: These are just personal opinions based on lots of discussion with intellectual property attorneys. I'm not an attorney, so I'm not attempting to give actual legal advice. For legal advice, talk to an attorney.

[mclendon1]

Thanks Amy. The water is so muddy there. I just can't imagine having the gall to claim something as being "my original design", such as a DC scarf, when there are so many of the same basic thing out there.

 

I appreciate your clarifying, I now know I can share my modifcations, as "my modifications" giving credit to the original designer.

 

Maybe, way in the future, with the help of the confidence I am developing, w/ the encouragement of all my 'Ville friends & neighbors, one day I will come up w/ something original. Right now, I feel it is a major accomplishment to be able to ever so slightly modifiy a pattern.

[Amy]

Thanks Amy. The water is so muddy there. I just can't imagine having the gall to claim something as being "my original design", such as a DC scarf, when there are so many of the same basic thing out there.

 

Personally, I don't think it means a designer "has gall" by designing and providing instructions for basic patterns. There are so many people out there who are afraid to venture out on their own to create something, and are much more comfortable following instructions written out by someone else. These basic patterns provide a much needed product for a number of crocheters. Just because one person has written up instructions for a basic scarf or granny square does not mean that everyone else in the world should never be able to do the same.

 

I don't see anything at all wrong with a number of people publishing basic patterns all for the same thing. Many basic patterns are made available for free, since they are so simple and basic. Other times, they're made available for sale, because the designer/publisher has turned the pattern more into a tutorial, and has included more information than is found in the average pattern. There's nothing wrong with either model.

 

Of course, if someone just isn't comfortable publishing their own instructions for basic things, that's perfectly okay, too.

[Kimblee]

I agree, it's just plain wrong to claim something as your own design, when it is not, very disrespectful. I'm starting to design some of my own things, but would never claim them as my own because I'm always inspired by other's designs.

 

I also get irritated when I see patterns for sale on Etsy or Ebay that are available free on the net.

 

Very true.

 

What ticks me off is things like a dish sponge pattern i found that claims to be an original, and the "creator" says NO ONE may sell finished works. (She might have made it up on her own though... its just ridged hdcs in a cricle, then joined at the top. But its still just like what I've been making since I was eight.)

 

Problem is, my great aunt made these for YEARS. She taught me, and her "pattern" is VERY simmilar, right down to the number of chains. (the internet patterns wants one less than auntie told me to make, but other than thet they are identical.)

 

I wanna sell dishies on etsy, but I don't want anyone to think i stole someone's idea...

[Miss Crochet]

I agree with all of the above.

 

I don't sell much in the way of crochet goods - I mostly just make baby blankets if someone specifically asks for one, but the patterns I do use tend to be tried-and-tested favourites. A granny square afghan - welll, no one can patent that, can they? . But even some of my other favourites are kind of in a gray area: I have two or three patterns for the Kitties in a Row afghan from different sources. Whose is it? I even read a post on Ravelry in which it was claimed that the stitch repeat of this pattern is even older and was used in pattern books in the 80s (? if I remember it correctly.) So as a decent and upright citizen, not wanting to infringe copyright law with her bi-yearly blanket sale, what do I do?

 

It's a big mess, for sure.

[flyinghigh]

Is it enough that if you want to sell a design that has a million different write-ups for the pattern, and aren't sure who credit for the design goes to, to at least make a tag or something for the item saying you made it, but it was "inspired by" some other pattern or designer?

[magiccrochetfan]

Very true.

 

What ticks me off is things like a dish sponge pattern i found that claims to be an original, and the "creator" says NO ONE may sell finished works. (She might have made it up on her own though... its just ridged hdcs in a cricle, then joined at the top. But its still just like what I've been making since I was eight.)

 

Problem is, my great aunt made these for YEARS. She taught me, and her "pattern" is VERY simmilar, right down to the number of chains. (the internet patterns wants one less than auntie told me to make, but other than thet they are identical.)

 

I wanna sell dishies on etsy, but I don't want anyone to think i stole someone's idea...

seems to me if you make them the way your aunt taught you, there is no problem, esp. if there is at least one difference between auntie's way and the "pattern" way.

 

I agree with all of the above.

 

I don't sell much in the way of crochet goods - I mostly just make baby blankets if someone specifically asks for one, but the patterns I do use tend to be tried-and-tested favourites. A granny square afghan - welll, no one can patent that, can they? . But even some of my other favourites are kind of in a gray area: I have two or three patterns for the Kitties in a Row afghan from different sources. Whose is it? I even read a post on Ravelry in which it was claimed that the stitch repeat of this pattern is even older and was used in pattern books in the 80s (? if I remember it correctly.) So as a decent and upright citizen, not wanting to infringe copyright law with her bi-yearly blanket sale, what do I do?

 

It's a big mess, for sure.

 

do all the patterns you have state that items can't be sold? if any do not say that, then just use that pattern.

[CroJulee]

A granny square afghan - welll, no one can patent that, can they?

An editor for a well known crochet magazine did that last year and claimed the pattern as her own. Really got me going. I know as a matter of fact that there are free patterns all over the net for granny square afghans so why they felt the need to waste room in a crochet magazine is beyond me.

[magiccrochetfan]

An editor for a well known crochet magazine did that last year and claimed the pattern as her own. Really got me going. I know as a matter of fact that there are free patterns all over the net for granny square afghans so why they felt the need to waste room in a crochet magazine is beyond me.

 

not to mention the hundreds of books that is in! did they at least tweak it somehow or add something to make it unique?

[CroJulee]

Not really. It was a typical granny ghan like people have been making for years. I've seen plenty around just like it. Her concept was not a new one. :-(

[magiccrochetfan]

Not really. It was a typical granny ghan like people have been making for years. I've seen plenty around just like it. Her concept was not a new one. :-(

 

Good grief! i agree w/ what Amy said, that it's good to have patterns available for the standards, and if somebody can find a better way to communicate the steps, that will be good for new crocheters. but then don't claim to have created something new!

[CroJulee]

Exactly. And even beyond that. Why charge for something that people can find for free all over? Just another thing that bugs me.

[Amy]

Exactly. And even beyond that. Why charge for something that people can find for free all over? Just another thing that bugs me.

 

Well, we live in a society based on capitalism. If somebody wants to create a very basic pattern, go to the time and effort to write instructions, proof them, create photographs to go with it, format the pattern document and such, then they are entitled to charge for their pattern if they so choose.

 

However, just because somebody CAN do and has the RIGHT to do something, doesn't mean they'll actually be successful at their attempt. For me personally, if there are plenty of free alternatives for a basic pattern (checking a book out of a library, downloading a free pattern on the internet), it doesn't make much sense to pay for that type of basic pattern. But there are plenty of other people who may be willing to pay for that basic pattern. For example, they may feel the convenience of getting that pattern right when they come across it is worth more to them than spending more of their time trying to locate a free source for something similar.

 

We all make different choices based on what is important to us, and I'd really hate to see this discussion begin to start bashing any designer who might choose to charge for their patterns, no matter how simple or basic they might be.

[magiccrochetfan]

as far as charging for something that could be found for free, a lot of people don't use the internet to find patterns, or may not even have a computer (hard to believe, isn't it, for those of us who spend our free time on the internet:lol) so they would prefer to have a magazine than to not have the pattern at all.