selling copyright "stuff" - what would YOU do?

[Krakovianka]

BTW--the issue with Disney and the sports teams isn't really copyright-centered. It has to do with trademarks. Copyrights belong to you sort of automatically, and no one can take them away. Trademarks have to be defended, or they can be lost. That's why they tend to be so (unpleasantly) aggressive.

[boksie]

Duplicating old photos is a copyright violation too. I tried to have a duplicate of my great grandparents wedding photo from late 1800s duplicated at Walmart. They printed it but wouldn't give it to me unless I could get a release from the studio that made it! Come on, like a little neighborhood photo studio from way back then would still be in business. If you want to have a researcher investigate whether or not a copypright is still valid prepare to spend $150 an hour. Yes, designers deserve the credit and income for their work but some of the copyright issues are ridiculous. Let's not start a witch hunt and become a copyright posse because we could be wrong (the granny square note is a good example of this). I saw a picture of a pair of slippers on here one day and I could swear they were the exact ones that I had been making from a copyrighted pattern. When I read the pattern for the slippers the writer had put for these slippers it was very different for an almost identical looking slipper! So, whatever decision you make on to report or not to report be sure of what you are doing.

[Krakovianka]

You have to remember, too, that selling something without permission is not necessarily against the law. However, discussing it is against the policies of the forum, so I'm never sure how explicit we are allowed to be when discussing the law itself.

 

http://www.crochetville.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1073896&postcount=5

 

That's a post of Amy's in which she explains a bit about the law as it concerns clothing. You can find out more here: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl103.html

[Krakovianka]

I had other links to copyright discussions here on c'ville, but most of them have disappeared. I look for this one to go, too, and probably the one I linked to as well. In general, craft websites are not your best sources for information about copyrights.

 

Since this thread is full of questions, here is another one for you.

 

In the eyes of the law, what is the difference between making a batch of chocolate chip cookies and selling them at a bake sale and making hat and selling it at a craft sale?

[Lucyf]

I agree with you. Once a designer has sold her pattern that should be the end of it for her. That's where she (he) needs to be making their money and having their name in print. Most of the pattern I seen in the last several years look as though they have only been tweeked from older patterns. I have several pattern booklet from as far back as the 20's and believe me nothing is new. After all how many ways can you make a granny square afghan , shell stitch afghan, or ripple afghan? And the only thing that changes on a sweater is the length of the body.

[CroJulee]

When he or she sells a pattern to a publisher or when he or she sells there patterns through etsy or something?

 

Julee

[Lucyf]

When he or she sells a pattern to a publisher or when he or she sells there patterns through etsy or something?

 

Julee

 

 

When a designer sell a pattern to a publisher then I think that unless they made a deal to be able to sell the same pattern, they no longer have any say so in what happens to it. After all, when I sell my jewelery, or the ipod or even my house I don't ask the designer or builder if I may and I don't have the right to tell my buyer what to do with it or how to redecorate it. Just like buying food at the grocery nobody's to going to tell me what to make. If a designer doesn't want their patterns or work out there then they should keep it to themselves.

[Jempast]

I agree Sherry, most people would assume that since the fabric is being sold to use it can be used for whatever reason you see fit. I was surprised when I learned that isn't the case.

 

I think companies should let you sell items made with the fabric that is copyrighted. I mean they make money when you buy the fabric. It's not like they are loosing any money.

[jeannej]

After all how many ways can you make a granny square afghan , shell stitch afghan, or ripple afghan?

 

I know, it's tricky to know just where to draw the line...To be careful, when posting a pic of my 2nd purse on the show and tell section of this forum, I even, half-jokingly, named it my "purloined purse", explaining how I borrowed the pattern-stitch from one place, the shape (basically square) from another, and the embellishment components from two others... Is it my purse???? Depends who you ask, I 'spose.

[Lucyf]

I make a lot of things from several different patterns and yes I consider them mine. I don't try to sell anything like that, but if I did what I would be selling is a shell stitch that I happen to like, a border or edging that I thought fit better, a pineapple that was just a little bigger or colors that I like better. Now, how can someone say that's their pattern?

[CroJulee]

Oh, Ok. I just needed some clarity. Thanks

 

Julee

[Lisaizme]

This whole discussion reminds me of a cute saying I once saw:

 

Copywrong.. all rights reversed.

 

Have a good one all.

[losingmymind2]

You certainly did the right thing, I can't imagine a patternwriter being annoyed with you for looking out for their interests. It's discouraging for people who write up beautiful patterns to find their work is being stolen.

[thepunkrockinchick]

I knew about this from another forum, if you sell (for example) Winnie the Pooh pyjamas you've made from store bought fabric Mr Disney Corporation will come down & whup your assets (so to speak!)

 

Yes, you have to be careful with licensed characters, but most generic fabrics/patterns you can use how ever you wish.

[Krakovianka]

You certainly did the right thing, I can't imagine a patternwriter being annoyed with you for looking out for their interests. It's discouraging for people who write up beautiful patterns to find their work is being stolen.

 

I think we need to careful about using words like "theft" and "steal" in connection with copyright violation. Copyright is a matter of civil, not criminal, law, and copyright violation is not "theft" under the law. Accusing people of theft when they are not guilty of it seems just as hurtful as selling something without a designer's permission (which may not even be illegal in many instances).

[Flia]

I don't quite understand this. If you make things from patterns it's your work you sell, not the pattern itself.

I realized that I had to write permissions on the US versions of my patterns, but I don't quite understand why.

I don't want my pattern to be sold by anyone else, but if I prevent people from selling their craft - how could anyone ever sell things they made.

[kookaloo_starr]

This whole discussion reminds me of a cute saying I once saw:

 

Copywrong.. all rights reversed.

 

Have a good one all.

 

I like it

[tnkycrochetnut]

FYI--If you make items from fabric--read the selvage edge and make sure the material is not copyrighted. If it is, you cannot make anything from it and sell it--without permission and I've found the companies will not give permission for you to sell it. You may make it for your own use or give it as a gift.

 

 

:eekThat's a new one on me. But now that I think about it, I understand why. Since I'm not much of a sewer (but have always wanted to be) I haven't had this problem. Thanks for the information but sorry you had to learn it in such an embarrassing way.

[Amy]

In the eyes of the law, what is the difference between making a batch of chocolate chip cookies and selling them at a bake sale and making hat and selling it at a craft sale?

 

In a nutshell: licensing issues. Licensing law is different from copyright law.

 

The attitude we have at Crochetville is that we want to respect the wishes of designers. If a pattern doesn't specifically grant permission for the finished items made from it to be sold: ask permission from the designer/copyright owner. Members don't have to agree with this, but you do have to follow this guideline if you want to talk at Crochetville about items you're personally selling made from the copyrighted patterns of others.

 

You'll find many are happy to grant that permission to you. There may be limitations, such as no online sales, or they may say you can do whatever you want. Of course, there will be some who won't grant permission.

[Amy]

I don't quite understand this. If you make things from patterns it's your work you sell, not the pattern itself.

I realized that I had to write permissions on the US versions of my patterns, but I don't quite understand why.

I don't want my pattern to be sold by anyone else, but if I prevent people from selling their craft - how could anyone ever sell things they made.

 

Easily: have the person who wants the finished item buy the pattern. You then charge the person for your time and skill in making the pattern for them. When you finish making the item, you give the pattern back to the person, keeping no copies for yourself.

 

This is how dressmakers work all the time when using patterns made by the big pattern companies.

[Amy]

This thread is getting into murky waters. Donna and I are at Chain Link this week, and we don't have time to watch this thread and make sure a bunch of misinformation isn't shared or to make sure people aren't recommending others do things that violate Crochetville's guidelines. So I'm going to temporarily close this thread. Please don't get any others started on this topic until Donna and I are able to get home from Chain Link.