selling copyright "stuff" - what would YOU do?

[kookaloo_starr]

I was just browsing on a certain "indy" sales site and came across a few different shops selling finished items from commercially available patterns.

I knew where to find one of the designers so I emailed her the details. I just hope it wasn't her own shop under another name.

What would you have done? I don't have an account on that site I just go window shopping so don't know how to go about informing the "powers that be" over there.

 

Designers - how would you feel about getting an email about suspected sales of your items? If it did all turn out to be above board would you be annoyed that someone sent you the info, or relieved that someone out there let you know of a potential problem?

 

Non-designers - would you have done as I did, or just turned a blind eye?

[CroJulee]

I've seen one online shop that not only used a copy writed pattern from Leisure arts. They also used leisure arts photos to sell their ponchos. I was thinking about selling on that site until I saw that. It was some kind of online consignment shop sort of thing.

I saw quite a few other designs that I knew were some one elses too. That was a few years ago though and I had no idea what channels to go through to report that or I would have.

 

I haven't seen items made from my designs for sale without the person wanting to sell them asking first. I guess I've been pretty lucky so far (knock on wood). But if some one did see an item made from one of my designs for sale I would appreciate getting an email with a link to the site with the items so I could see if that person had my permission or not.

 

 

Just my 2 cents worth!!

 

Julee

[boksie]

You have some good questions. I'm really interested in seeing how others respond. I don't think anyone begrudges designers making money off of their creations. They earned it. I don't know if I would report it or not. Maybe the seller has permission from the copyright owner to sell such items. Maybe it is a similar design to a copyrighted one--it is easy in many cases to see how that can happen. If you suspect but don't know that a violation has occurred then I wouldn't report it. If you definitely know then perhaps you should.

[ratdog]

Many designers have patterns on the web that say that the finished items can be sold but NOT the pattern. Credit must be given to the designer of the pattern.

 

Pehaps that is what is going on in this case.

[CroJulee]

Maybe in some cases but some people have no respect for the author. I've seen lots of patterns that say that permission must be asked first. Some even say that you can't sell an item made from their design at all.

 

Julee

[krafty19]

When I had my craft business I had a shirt I was selling in my booth of craft items. But someone turned me in to the police dept of the town that the craft show was in because it was a copyright law violation. I had to call the company and explain what I had done.

 

All the person had to do was come to me and tell me I shouldn't be selling that particular item (a shirt--the fabric was copyrighted and I didn't realize it). And I would have removed it from the booth.

 

If you suspect the item might be an infringement of the copyright law, I would talk to the individual that has the copyright and let them make that decision to check it out or not.

 

FYI--If you make items from fabric--read the selvage edge and make sure the material is not copyrighted. If it is, you cannot make anything from it and sell it--without permission and I've found the companies will not give permission for you to sell it. You may make it for your own use or give it as a gift.

[kookaloo_starr]

It's certainly not a case of "something similar" as the ad states the specific book the pattern is in as a selling point & I checked the designers webpage before I sent the email. I shouldn't be second guessing myself on this, morally I did the right thing.

 

 

Sherry, how awful for you!

[CroJulee]

FYI--If you make items from fabric--read the selvage edge and make sure the material is not copyrighted. If it is, you cannot make anything from it and sell it--without permission and I've found the companies will not give permission for you to sell it. You may make it for your own use or give it as a gift.

 

Oh my goodness. Now if that isn't a stiff Copy right. That's crazy. I wonder how many people violate that copy right law every day.

 

Julee

[kookaloo_starr]

Oh my goodness. Now if that isn't a stiff Copy right. That's crazy. I wonder how many people violate that copy right law every day.

 

Julee

 

I knew about this from another forum, if you sell (for example) Winnie the Pooh pyjamas you've made from store bought fabric Mr Disney Corporation will come down & whup your assets (so to speak!)

[krafty19]

I'm sure many people aren't aware of it. I try to let others know so they won't be in an embarrassing situation like I was. And yes, they can take your items.

[kookaloo_starr]

I agree Sherry, most people would assume that since the fabric is being sold to use it can be used for whatever reason you see fit. I was surprised when I learned that isn't the case.

[CroJulee]

I guess I'm lucky I don't sew well enough to sell anything. Even if I could sew well I still wouldn't sell anything though. Crochet keeps me busy enough.

 

Julee

[RoseRed]

I have a question. What would you do if you saw one of your designs or the basic concept of your design stolen and in a magazine?

[dobermama]

I have a question. What would you do if you saw one of your designs or the basic concept of your design stolen and in a magazine?

 

Contact the editor of the magazine and log a complaint, tell them you are seeking legal council and would like compensation or at the very least, recognition for the pattern.

[HappyOldCro]

This was one of the many reasons I quit selling or doing craft fairs. The copyright issues and the various state laws about licensing.

Too many variations and no way of knowing what you can or can't sell without doing extensive research or keeping a lawyer on salary.

 

Mary buys a pattern book. Finished with it she sells it. Sally buys same book, but instead of paying shipping fees, she prints a copy on her PC. Both have paid the same price for the book, but Mary can resell and Sally can't, where is the sense in that?

 

Grandma taught me to make granny type afghans and squares as a child. I have used the memorized pattern for years and sold some. Then someone makes a square, and posts it on a website saying it is their design and it is copyrighted, am I now a criminal?

 

Most of the commercial patterns sold and given away at stores have copyrights for the patterns, not the items made from it. And the same goes for patterns posted on the web, they very often say you can make, keep and/or sell the items but not the pattern.

 

And the copyrights themselves are often outdated. So rather than play the game and try to figure out which is what I just gave up.

 

I want to crochet to relax and enjoy crocheting, once it requires so much policing of it, it is no longer fun and becomes a very serious job. I'm retired and have enough to worry over, so I play it safe.

 

I will honor copyrights by not reselling an individual designers patterns. Once a designer sells a pattern to a publisher, he/she has given up her rights to them, so they have final say on what can be done with it.

 

As someone who has designed things, if I post the patterns, I don't care what is done with them. Make it, give it and if you can make a few dollars selling it, more power to you.

 

As a crocheter, I haven't got the time to spend on policing everyone else's designs. It would have to be a very high priced exclusive design to make me even think about whether or not it is copyrighted.

 

JMHO

[HappyOldCro]

FYI--If you make items from fabric--read the selvage edge and make sure the material is not copyrighted. If it is, you cannot make anything from it and sell it--without permission and I've found the companies will not give permission for you to sell it. You may make it for your own use or give it as a gift.

 

And what happens when the person you gave it to no longer needs or wants it? They resell it--or can they?

[krafty19]

And what happens when the person you gave it to no longer needs or wants it? They resell it--or can they?

 

Technically, they are to give it away--you cannot profit from anyone else's copyrighted merchandise. But you see things in garage sales all the time that are being sold that are copyrighted.

[eurolyons]

As a designer it would strongly depend on the design that was being sold. If it is a finished product, I probably wouldn't mind one iota. If it was a written pattern of mine, I might mind more. It would depend on how the item was marketed.

 

There would be a lot of factors. If I received an email, I'd write back and thank the writer for the information and look into the matter, but I would not necessarily be put out if I discovered that the seller was someone like me trying to make a fairly honest "living" so to speak...he or she was putting their skills to use to make something to sell. That they would think my pattern was worthwhile enough to make up and sell, more power to them.

 

What would annoy me though would be to find some company poaching my design. That would annoy me because they should know better. But some individual trying to make a dollar or two off my design, far less so...in fact, I would probably contact them and see if we could negotiate something where they could continue to make and sell items based on my patterns, but give me credit at least...

[eurolyons]

This was one of the many reasons I quit selling or doing craft fairs. The copyright issues and the various state laws about licensing.

Too many variations and no way of knowing what you can or can't sell without doing extensive research or keeping a lawyer on salary.

 

Mary buys a pattern book. Finished with it she sells it. Sally buys same book, but instead of paying shipping fees, she prints a copy on her PC. Both have paid the same price for the book, but Mary can resell and Sally can't, where is the sense in that?

 

Grandma taught me to make granny type afghans and squares as a child. I have used the memorized pattern for years and sold some. Then someone makes a square, and posts it on a website saying it is their design and it is copyrighted, am I now a criminal?

 

Most of the commercial patterns sold and given away at stores have copyrights for the patterns, not the items made from it. And the same goes for patterns posted on the web, they very often say you can make, keep and/or sell the items but not the pattern.

 

And the copyrights themselves are often outdated. So rather than play the game and try to figure out which is what I just gave up.

 

I want to crochet to relax and enjoy crocheting, once it requires so much policing of it, it is no longer fun and becomes a very serious job. I'm retired and have enough to worry over, so I play it safe.

 

I will honor copyrights by not reselling an individual designers patterns. Once a designer sells a pattern to a publisher, he/she has given up her rights to them, so they have final say on what can be done with it.

 

As someone who has designed things, if I post the patterns, I don't care what is done with them. Make it, give it and if you can make a few dollars selling it, more power to you.

 

As a crocheter, I haven't got the time to spend on policing everyone else's designs. It would have to be a very high priced exclusive design to make me even think about whether or not it is copyrighted.

 

JMHO

 

Bless you dear woman...I love this post...I agree with everything you say here...

[eurolyons]

FYI--If you make items from fabric--read the selvage edge and make sure the material is not copyrighted. If it is, you cannot make anything from it and sell it--without permission and I've found the companies will not give permission for you to sell it. You may make it for your own use or give it as a gift.

 

You know, I read things like this and all I can think of is how in the name of God ANYONE manages to design or make ANYTHING...what the heck are people suppose to do to make things with FABRIC no less, just buy blank cotton and design their own FABRIC????? You've got to be kidding me. I think half the copyright arguments are just a lot of dogs barking, but with no real bite...it all really boils down to how much people want to spend on either protecting their product by going to court and even then, no two judges tend to agree on the various copyright laws and their interpretations...it's insane...

 

I cannot believe for one minute that someone who makes quilts to sell for example, would have to get permission from various fabric companies before being able to sell the quilts.

 

Should we be contacting yarn companies and asking permission to sell our finished projects when we merely use their yarn???? I don't think so.

 

It's getting to the point where the simple word "share" is considered a bad word and I find that horrid quite frankly. It's getting to the point where one would buy a book and not be able to lend it to another person for any reason whatsoever...no they should "buy" their own book, seems to be the prevailing attitude and god forbid they buy that book from a yard sale...the person holding the yard sale might be violating copyright for selling something they've already bought and by rights should be able to sell and it wouldn't be for profit. It would be for pennies on the dollar.

[kookaloo_starr]

FYI--If you make items from fabric--read the selvage edge and make sure the material is not copyrighted. If it is, you cannot make anything from it and sell it--without permission and I've found the companies will not give permission for you to sell it. You may make it for your own use or give it as a gift.

 

You know, I read things like this and all I can think of is how in the name of God ANYONE manages to design or make ANYTHING...what the heck are people suppose to do to make things with FABRIC no less, just buy blank cotton and design their own FABRIC????? You've got to be kidding me. I think half the copyright arguments are just a lot of dogs barking, but with no real bite...it all really boils down to how much people want to spend on either protecting their product by going to court and even then, no two judges tend to agree on the various copyright laws and their interpretations...it's insane...

 

I cannot believe for one minute that someone who makes quilts to sell for example, would have to get permission from various fabric companies before being able to sell the quilts.

 

Should we be contacting yarn companies and asking permission to sell our finished projects when we merely use their yarn???? I don't think so.

 

It's getting to the point where the simple word "share" is considered a bad word and I find that horrid quite frankly. It's getting to the point where one would buy a book and not be able to lend it to another person for any reason whatsoever...no they should "buy" their own book, seems to be the prevailing attitude and god forbid they buy that book from a yard sale...the person holding the yard sale might be violating copyright for selling something they've already bought and by rights should be able to sell and it wouldn't be for profit. It would be for pennies on the dollar.

 

It's a mad,bad and sad world for sure!

[pasteeater]

I knew about this from another forum, if you sell (for example) Winnie the Pooh pyjamas you've made from store bought fabric Mr Disney Corporation will come down & whup your assets (so to speak!)

Disney is REALLY rough on their copy writes. They don't play around either. I've heard many stories about them.

 

But I never knew that you could get into trouble for selling things you made with fabric. I didn't know you could even copywrite fabric! I guess it does make sense now. Like I have seen NFL fabric before and I could see that would be a copy write issue.

[candiwv_]

Okay, I understand the designers point of view and yes they should profit from the design. But to not be able to sell the finished product, come on. How many people do you know are going to go buy that particular pattern or book and go through the trouble of learning how to crochet, just for that particular item? Not many nowadays! The fabric copyright is a big joke. Personally, I have decided that if I cannot use the pattern to make items to sell if I want then I am not going to buy it. This includes new booklets or magazines. I can get old ones for next to nothing with similar designs for next to nothing at garage sales and such. The only time I would make an exception to this is when I knew the designer was making her designs and selling them herself. Then this would make sense.

 

For example, I do not see disney making crayon cases out of the same fabric they sell in craft stores. So why keep someone else from making something from it? I hope I am being clear and not causing confusion. LOL.

[krafty19]

Disney is REALLY rough on their copy writes. They don't play around either. I've heard many stories about them.

 

But I never knew that you could get into trouble for selling things you made with fabric. I didn't know you could even copywrite fabric! I guess it does make sense now. Like I have seen NFL fabric before and I could see that would be a copy write issue.

 

Not only the NFL and Disney, but the colleges also have copyrights on their logo (OU for example). You cannot crochet an afghan with a logo on it (NFL or college/university) and sell it. The same for the fabric--it's ok to buy it for personal use but not for you to make a profit on it. There have been vendors that have had their inventory taken because they did not have the permission to sell those items with the logo on it.

[Krakovianka]

Actually, the doctrine of first sale (not written copyright law, but implied by case law) states that copyright is "exhausted" when an item is sold at retail. The copyright holder no longer has interest in *that* copy--which is why you can resell your book, your original painting by an artist, and yes, even your kids' outgrown Disney apparel. Disney and some other large corporations (like sports teams) happily license fabric, but try to restrict its use. They will bully crafters, but the courts have by no means upheld their claims in most cases, when it gets that far. Most people just give way the moment they get a cease-and-desist letter.

 

In any case, if you buy an item, you own that "copy" of it, and are not restricted from reselling it--even at a profit. (Remember the beanie baby craze?)