Copyrights and other such stuff..

[LadyyOftheOak]

Ok I have a question.. well a pondering really and maybe someone can explain this to me better than I'm understanding it myself

 

First let me say that:

1. Stealing patterns and selling them as your own is wrong.

2. Using the photos someone else has used to advertise their patterns is just stupid.

3. Taking someone's pattern, changing a few words on it or the arrangement is stealing and is wrong.

4. Taking someone's pattern, changing a few words and changing the name to suit your own is wrong..

 

etc etc

 

but...

 

One of my main reasons of not using a pattern alot of the time is that I know the stitches. Crochet patterns are just variances of different stitches used in different combinations and spacing etc. So for instance, the baby afghan I just finished I did not use a pattern on, however, the cluster stitch, the shell stitch, all these are used over and over in patterns. And who is to say that someone else wouldn't come up with the idea of a cluster stitched center, with shells around the edging?

 

I saw a pattern here actually I think, for a little drawstring cradle purse. I used to have one of these as a child, my grandmother made it for me. I've duplicated that same sort of idea, without the exact stitches however, and come up with the same sort of look... is this copyright infringement? I've not copied someone's pattern, this was something I've been making since I was a kid.. ? (sorry this is just one that came to mind .. especially when I saw it shown in Show And Tell.. )

 

I guess my question is where does personal creativity end and copyright problems start? I don't want to step on anyone's toes or steal their work, but I do make items to sell and sell them quite well actually.. however, most of my work is not off of a pattern... if it looks even similar to a pattern do I run a risk of being in trouble? I sure don't want anyone to think I'm stealing ideas or stepping on someone's copyrighted things..

 

I'm getting really confused..

[LadyyOftheOak]

Nobody has any information?

[Chiscrochetcrazy]

If you have the pattern sitting in front of you for reference that to me is copying , just looking at a pic and duplicating it isn't.To me you can tell if someone copies because alot of us write patterns up differently.We kinda have our little same things we do.

[Catana]

I don't think it's a problem if you come up with a stitch combination that someone else has used. After all, there are only so many stitiches. You have to judge by the whole project, including what the item is, how the stitches are combined, etc.

[LadyyOftheOak]

Thanks, that's kind of what I thought. Like I said I don't want to be thot of as "copying" anyone's work.. a written pattern would be just that.. but I have this dilemma since I do so much without a pattern, I just wondered how that could be construed.

 

Tonite I start writing my own pattern down My first written one

[pbnj]

hmmm i could say what i _think_ is correct but in sensitive cases like this i wouldn't want to lead someone the wrong way. but as catana says there are only so many stitches (unless you make up an unusual one?).

 

 

for what it's worth i work with a bunch of lawyers, i could ask a couple of the ones i know better what they might know about something like this.

[LadyyOftheOak]

I can see a difference in the way the pattern is worded, but "ch 3 turn dc next 13 sc" is pretty standard (insert your own numbers to vary) .. I just don't want to step on toes.. I had to wonder about this tho.

[Cordelia]

Stitches are fairly standard...its how you use them and put them together that makes them unique and your own.

 

Think of it in cooking terms: Butter will be a certain stitch....When you create a recipe and use butter, you did not create the butter, everyone uses it, but the way you added to your creation is new, hence it being your creation.

 

Make sense?

[crochet.sandie]

I can see a difference in the way the pattern is worded, but "ch 3 turn dc next 13 sc" is pretty standard (insert your own numbers to vary) .. I just don't want to step on toes.. I had to wonder about this tho.

 

That is true to some degree, but there still could be differences. For example, some people put the ch 3, turn as Row 1 and start the next part of the pattern on row 2. Some people put the ch 3, turn, on Row 2. (insert row numbers of your own *smile*)

 

Another example.

dc next 13 sc.

 

I would probably write "dc in ea of next 13 sc". If I'm doing a beginner pattern, I might even write it out. "double crochet in each of the next 13 single crochets".

 

Some might use plurals, some might not.

 

I like to add notes and such in mine, and give options, like different starting foundation chains.

 

Even granny squares - some ch 2 between corner shells, some ch 3. Some ss over to next corner, some use the dc/hdc/sc joining method on rounds. I have used both in different patterns.

 

So you see, when you write up your pattern, you will add your own pics firstly, give it your own name, and write it up in your own manner. Make it your own. Say you are writing up a granny square, you might want to add suggestions of what you could do with the square. You might make it more than one color and include instructions on how to change color etc etc.

 

All that said, there are still only so many stitches and there are sure to be similar patterns out there that use them in the same combination. But they will likely not use the same colors, the same method of instruction and wording.

 

I once had a student write to me and insist that I had stolen her mother's pattern, which her mother had told her she had posted on a forum. I KNEW I had not copied anyone's pattern, esp since she told me mine was EXACTLY like her mother's. My writing style is conversational and very unique, so I asked her where the pattern appeared. As it happened her mother couldn't tell her. With investigation, she realized she was in error. She had understandably jumped to her mother's defense, but without any concrete evidence. However, I took the pattern off my site anyway, and created a tutorial, which is done vastly different than a pattern, so there would absolutely be no confusion. The pattern was a simple pentagon made into a stocking ornament. These are all over the place, so it is quite possible her mother posted how to make these on some forum at some time.

 

So you see there's always the chance someone will make an accusation, true or not. Having your design published in paper format, or putting it on a web site with the copyright clearly visible, gives you somewhat proof. I had not done this, but now I put dates on everything I do. I also put copyright on all my pictures now. I've had occasion to find them on other sites.

 

It's wonderful to be able to share patterns with others, but you have to protect yourself as well as there are, unfortunately, those who would steal them, sometimes unwittingly and innocently. Sometimes knowingly. The public is gradually being made aware of copyright laws through the Internet. This is a good thing.

 

Good luck with your pattern designs!

[Katchkan]

The law as I read it is.

Patterns and written text are copyrightable, techniques, and methods are not.

 

Our Crochet stitches are considered a method not a design. What we do with them is copyrightable.

 

Crocheting a square is a method,

Crocheting a circle is method,

Even a row is method.

The number, type, and combination of stitches to make that square, circle, or row becomes your design.

 

Your best bet is to read what the goverment has to say on the subject and take it from there.

http://www.copyright.gov/

[LadyyOftheOak]

Even granny squares - some ch 2 between corner shells, some ch 3. Some ss over to next corner, some use the dc/hdc/sc joining method on rounds. I have used both in different patterns.

 

hehe.. I thot I was the only one that did ch2 between corner shells Lol..

[crochet.sandie]

hehe.. I thot I was the only one that did ch2 between corner shells Lol..

 

Nope. LOL There is nothing new under the sun, as they say. LOL It's all in how you put it together.

[Holiday]

*Most of my knowledge comes from forums, so I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I have heard the same thing often...which I know doesn't mean much, lol, but I'm tossing this disclaimer in front so, big grain of salt, alright?

 

As far as I know it isn't copyright infringement if you don't actually "copy" said item. I'll use maps as an easier example. Ted's company *"Maps Plus" writes and sells maps to "Hidden River". Mike's company sees how popular "Hidden River" is and what a goldmine the maps are and designs their own maps to the same place. Five other companies do the same. Each company plotted their own route to "Hidden River" and drew or shot their own photographs. They can all-as far as I know-legally sell these maps without it being copyright infringement. Any middle-of-nowhere convenience store will prove this to be true .

 

It's sort of like knock-off designs, like the "Mary-Kate" Eternity Shawl that is so hot right now. Whenever something hot comes out a dozen others naturally follow.

 

Now, of course, one would hope that the patterns are never exact duplicates, but with a limited number of combinations in this world--it will and does happen. That's a whole confusing area I can't even ramble about because it's even jumbled up in my head . So, as far as I know, writing your own pattern is alright. Sweaters from the '50s are being designed today as modern creations with the tiniest variations and without a hint of maliciousness. Limited number of combinations...

 

Ugh, ramble, ramble, I'm losing myself...

 

Nutshell:

You created your own pattern, you didn't copy it.

You aren't attempting to de-fraud people with "creative" writing and make them think that it's the other person's pattern.

So it should be fine.

 

Have I made any sense? I've been a more than a bit green around the gills the past few days and I feel like non-senical, warmed-over death so I'd understand if you said: "no, not at all."

 

Notes:

*1) I'm not trying to say that knowledge garnered from forums is not useful and I am unsure as to whether that is clear. What I mean is, like in the game "Telephone," just because one thing is said often does not mean it's true. Hence why I said just because I've heard it often doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. I know that I should just re-write that first part but I'm tired and it probably would wind-up even more confusing.

 

*2) All companies, products, etc sited in my maps example are made-up (as far as I know) and simply for example purposes. Lol, another disclaimer.

 

 

Hoping I've helped some

without confusing,

 

Holiday

[LadyyOftheOak]

No you made perfect sense