How can they do this?

[Chatty]

I went into one of the patterns she's selling that I actually crocheted and clicked the ask the seller a question and asked her how she could sell it as hers when I got it from Wal Mart for free. She actually emailed me back.

 

I never ever said anywhere that this pattern is my own. please check any of my listings there is never a mention of these patterns being my design. But thank you for bringing it to my attention I will make sure to list these as not my designs in the description in the future. Have a great day!

 

If she wasn't trying to pass them off as her own why did she alter the pictures?

 

I wonder if she'll give credit where it's supposed to be given...

[Carol]

I went into one of the patterns she's selling that I actually crocheted and clicked the ask the seller a question and asked her how she could sell it as hers when I got it from Wal Mart for free. She actually emailed me back.

 

 

 

If she wasn't trying to pass them off as her own why did she alter the pictures?

 

I wonder if she'll give credit where it's supposed to be given...

 

IMHO and in my experience, her excuse won't protect her under US copyright law. It would be similar to xeroxing someone's magazine article, then trying to sell it. Even if the magazine were free, even if I didn't put my name on the article, it's still stealing, because I don't own the copyright to the article.

 

Now, if she's selling what she made from those patterns, that's something entirely different and is ok. But she can't sell actual patterns or copies of patterns that she does not own, even if she's upfront about the fact that they are not her original patterns. The fact that the patterns were free is irrelevant.

 

Don't mean to sound preachy, but this stuff really angers me, since I'm a writer and I deal with it all the time...

 

Carol

[rddugan]

I just checked out this person's ebay listings and she has several of these patterns listed, some of which I have in the form of tear sheets from craft stores. It is an ebay infringement, I believe in the unlawful sale of promotional items. I reported the listings, but my experience with ebay is that they have their hands full, and this would require extra footwork on their part. Maybe the messages to the companies themselves will be helpful.

[Donna]

Now, if she's selling what she made from those patterns, that's something entirely different and is okay.

No, I'm afraid that's not always ok. Depending on who published the pattern, you may or may not have permission to sell items made from patterns. You need to check the copyright statement on the pattern and see what permissions you have. It' almost irrelevant for me to address this, though, because people violate this aspect of copyright on such a regular basis that it seems most people think it's entirely okay.

[Ambersafghans]

As Donna said, you need permision to sell something made from a pattern. many companies don't want you selling on ebay. But anyway, I emailed her and she responded. I emailed her again and I"m waiting for another response. We'll see if anything happens.

Amber

[Carol]

As Donna said, you need permision to sell something made from a pattern. many companies don't want you selling on ebay. But anyway, I emailed her and she responded. I emailed her again and I"m waiting for another response. We'll see if anything happens.

Amber

 

I know that many companies and designers tell you not to sell what you make from their patterns, but is doing so a violation of copyright law or a violation of company or designer policy? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be violating the _pattern_ copyright, since the object you are selling is not the _pattern_ per se, but I don't know whether you're violating a copyright by selling the _item_ you made from the pattern.

 

I've seen designer websites where the designer has asked only that the item made from her patterns not be sold in her home state, since that's where she does her business. That leads me to believe you can't sell the pattern but you can sell what you make from the pattern, and that only the designer's permission is needed to do that.

 

Copyright is a complex set of laws. There are attorneys who do nothing else but deal with copyright, and I can see why.

[Donna]

I know that many companies and designers tell you not to sell what you make from their patterns, but is doing so a violation of copyright law or a violation of company or designer policy?

It is indeed a violation of copyright law. I'll agree that intellectual property is quite complicated, but in general, you should not sell items made from others' patterns unless you have permission. I suggest reading this well written article from Knitty, Copyright [a pimer for knitters]. And, yes, the article was written by an intellectual property lawyer.

[Donna]

I've seen designer websites where the designer has asked only that the item made from her patterns not be sold in her home state, since that's where she does her business. That leads me to believe you can't sell the pattern but you can sell what you make from the pattern, and that only the designer's permission is needed to do that.

No, here the designer is simply giving you permission to use her pattern (which is, of course, protected by copyright) to make and sell items. However, she is making the stipulation that you not sell them in her home state. This is fully within her rights. She is granting very specific permissions for the use of her patterns. Don't let what one person (or a few people) does lead you to believe anything. Find out the facts. It's a crafter's responsibility to be educated about copyright law. If the designer didn't have control over who makes and sells items from her patterns, do you think she would be able to stipulate you couldn't make and sell them in her home state?

[Ambersafghans]

thanks donna. I don't think I could have answered that one!

Amber

[Donna]

You're welcome, Amber!

[Chatty]

Coats and Clark have a statement about making and selling their designs:

 

An item made from a design contained in a Coats & Clark publication may be sold as a finished product providing:

 

1. It is crafted by the individual offering the item for sale

2. It is made using a Coats & Clark product.

 

It is not permissible to contract production of projects made from designs published by Coats & Clark to a third party for sale or distribution.

 

An item made from a design whose trademark is licensed to Coats & Clark for use in books, leaflets, or kits ( for example: J & P Coats Latch Hook based on the Peanuts® characters.) may not be sold as a finished project under any circumstances

 

So you can make and sell their designs as long as you use Coats and Clark products in the design and you made the product yourself and are selling it.

[Carol]

Thanks, Donna. I appreciate the info. (I realized about 30 seconds after I posted that comment that what someone does shouldn't lead me to believe anything!)

 

Carol

[creativegoodness]

There is another seller I just found selling free patterns. I'm not sure about the doll one, but the other 2 you can get from CPC.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41229&item=8191649032&rd=1

 

And there is a bid on it.

[Knittykim]

Boy...people will try anything to make money. I wonder if they can lose their account/priviledges on E-Bay?? what a scam:eek

[diamond]

This person isn't even a new Ebayer! She's got almost 300 feedbacks. Some people have big cajones!!!

[smyz64]

They most certainly could lose their accounts with Ebay.

[carollovesyarn]

Did Lion Brand or Coats and Clark ever reply to the people here who wrote to them?

 

 

I really detest ebayers who do this sort of thing.

 

Carol

[sjkmaurice]

Speaking of the two patterns offered by the latest scammer, one is obviously from a book. I have several books that have patterns that are free on the internet. And the books are not old. I wonder how that is possible because I thought once someone sold their pattern, it belonged exclusively to the company and I don't see them giving it away for free, so how do they get online?

[ZingyZoid]

I wrote Lion Brand and got a generic "We'll investigate this, thanks for bringing it to our attention" email. Haven't heard anything since.

 

Did Lion Brand or Coats and Clark ever reply to the people here who wrote to them?

 

 

 

I really detest ebayers who do this sort of thing.

 

Carol

[creativegoodness]

I wrote to ebay after the first post awhile back. I also got a generic response. Thanks for looking out, someone will be investigating, blah blah. Bottom line is, they are too busy to enforce the rules on everyone or they just don't care about the small things, which is how they probably view this.

 

I sent a message to the lady who was bidding on that last link I posted and told her that I knew for sure that 2 out of those 3 patterns were available through links on Crochet Pattern Central. She wrote back and told me thanks for my kindness. I really just can't stand someone taking advantage of someone else's hard earned money. I know everyone works hard to make what they have and if they don't have to spend $ for a pattern then they shouldn't have to just because they aren't aware that it is available elsewhere for free. It makes me so angry, and it's just downright mean in my opinion...(and that is the clean version of my opinion)