Selling things you make

[papersmiles]

OK....I think I read someplace on here about the legalities of selling things you make from copywrited patterns but I can't seem to find it. So I'm being a bit dense at the moment and asking this question:

 

If I crochet something from a pattern I find in a book or website that is copywrited, am I allowed to sell it to the public, friends or family? I have made several of Doris Chan's luscious designs as well as some of Kathryn White's gorgeous doilies. Even though I usually give most of the finished projects away, I have been asked to make things for shows, bazaars, festival booths and for others that want to buy them. Can I do that?

 

Thanks,

Barbara

[annmcc1976]

Now im not 100% on this.. but I do believe unless there is soemting somewhere on the pattern that says you can not sell any finish product.. there is no reason why not... after all you are providing the service of making the item for the said person, using your time, your materials and that cost money. but we all also know as we all enjoy the same craft.. it's hard to get the true value of the finish product as not everyone will see the time and care and cratmentship put into your item.

 

but if i'm wrong here I know someone will chime in with the correct or any added info

[pretty_bug01]

From what I understand from other threads is that the finished product is copyrighted as well. An intellectual thing I guess. However, if you make your own pattern, then you own the copyright to make, sell, and produce as you wish. Think about it this way....you are using someone else's idea to make money off of it. However small amount of money, it's still taking away from the designer's income who came up with the pattern in the first place. Not a very nice thing to do. Although. You can be paid as a contractor. What I mean to say is that you can be contracted by someone to make an item for them. They would pay for the yarn, supplies, and pattern, then pay you to crochet it. That is legal.

[pretty_bug01]

Oh also...always assume that you cannot, unless it is written that says that you can sell the items. Some on the 'ville have specific granting of approval for you to sell the finished product from their patterns....some elsewhere. But always contact the designer before selling the items. Remember it is their creation, you just copied it by reproducing something from their pattern. Hope this helps!

[chrissyf]

what i have found iespecially with designers here is very simply to ask..send an email to the designer with exactly what you would like to do...i wanted to make somethings for a local craft fair and for a family member to give to her friends as gifts...i emailed the designer and asked permission...then kept the email response with the patterns. I find that asking permission is appreciated and even welcomed...you can even offer to give the designer credit on a tag attached to the bazaar item. it is important to ask for the permission...easy to do with indy designers harder to ask the "big" names and that is just because we tend to "know" the indy designeres from a forum or online group and the "big" names are a little less easy to find

[Real Deal]

Also you can sell items you make from the free patterns from the yarn companies, like Lion Brand.

[Amy]

The legal issues surrounding sale of finished items made from patterns can get pretty murky. The problem is that many aspects of law are involved here: copyright, licensing, contract. Because lawsuits are so expensive for all involved, there have so far been no court cases that would give a definitive answer and establish precedent to be used in determining outcomes of future cases. Even attorneys who specialize in intellectual property law (working with copyright, trademark, patent) have different opinions on this issue.

 

Crochetville's guidelines go beyond what may or may not be allowed by any particular branch of law (on its own or combined with others) to ask members to consider the wishes of the designer/publisher. You will find many books/magazines/patterns have been published with a statement that says finished items may not be sold. (This usually involves licensing and/or contract law, and not copyright law. However, some attorneys have compelling arguments for why finished items should be considered derivative works or even reproductions of the original work but just in another format, and therefore subject to copyright protection, even when taking into account the "useful article" restrictions of copyright law.)

 

So, our guidelines recommend that if somebody wants to crochet items using a pattern, with the specific intent to make those items for resale, then you should abide by the wishes of the designer/publisher. We only allow discussion of or links to sales of finished items made from patterns in which the designer/publisher has specifically granted permission for finished items to be sold. (This information may be found on the pattern itself or on the website of the designer or publisher.)

 

If permission is not specifically granted, you should contact the designer or publisher and ask for permission. As others have said, many are happy to grant permission if you just give them the respect of asking first before you use their work for profit. Others may give permission for a limited number of items to be made for sale, or for any number of items to be made as long as there are no internet sales. Others may decline to give permission at all.

 

Of course, if you don't want to bother with figuring out permissions and such, the easiest solution is just to design your own patterns to use to make items you want to sell! And if you just really love to share and don't mind people profiting from your hard work, effort, and skills in designing your patterns, there are plenty of people out there who would love for you to post your patterns with a statement they may be used freely by anyone for commercial purposes.

 

There's a huge market out there of people who are interested in patterns that they can use to make items specifically for the purpose of selling. The big downside is that it's very hard to crochet an item and be able to price it at a level that 1) people will pay and 2) will provide you with a decent hourly rate for your time invested in making the item.

[papersmiles]

Oh my, what a can of worms. Thanks so much for everyone's responses. I hadn't really thought about many aspects of this topic. Since I am a complete "washout" as a designer, I guess I will continue to GIVE away any completed projects using copyrighted patterns. Again, I sure appreciated C'ville members' expertise and help.

[patcreates]

Oh my, what a can of worms. Thanks so much for everyone's responses. I hadn't really thought about many aspects of this topic. Since I am a complete "washout" as a designer, I guess I will continue to GIVE away any completed projects using copyrighted patterns. Again, I sure appreciated C'ville members' expertise and help.

 

Just an FYI - Lion Brand's website is one of the few that I know for sure lets you sell what you make from their patterns. Check it out here: http://www.lionbrand.com/faq/67.html?www=1&language=

 

They have so many great patterns!

[papersmiles]

Patti, thanks so much for the link. I used to visit lion brand patterns frequently but when my computer "belched" the last time I lost a ton of links and just never reconnected. I will be adding the link to my favs. Great to know I can sell items made from their free patterns.

[annmcc1976]

What im currious about.. if someone see's a item in a pattern book. and ask's you to make it for them and they'd pay you... are you allowed to accpt payment" or do you just have them buy the yarn and you make it for free? I sure don't want to make something and not get compenseated for at least my time.. or if they just tell me to get the yarn or use what i have. i'd be spending my money for yarn. and i'd in turn be paying them to make the blanket for em,

[Amy]

What im currious about.. if someone see's a item in a pattern book. and ask's you to make it for them and they'd pay you... are you allowed to accpt payment" or do you just have them buy the yarn and you make it for free? I sure don't want to make something and not get compenseated for at least my time.. or if they just tell me to get the yarn or use what i have. i'd be spending my money for yarn. and i'd in turn be paying them to make the blanket for em,

 

This is where things can get sticky. If the pattern book doesn't grant permission for items made from it to be sold, then as far as our guidelines are concerned, you should contact the publisher and ask for permission, if you are the one who purchased and owns the pattern.

 

If you purchased a pattern, and somebody else wants you to use that pattern to make something for them and pay you for it in any way, you need to contact the publisher and ask for permission (in order to be compliant with our guidelines). Obviously, we can't make anybody follow those guidelines, but we can say that if you aren't following those guidelines, then please don't discuss what you're doing here in any way.

 

If somebody else purchased a pattern, and they want to pay you to make an item for them, then they at that point are technically and legally speaking, not paying for the object, but paying for your services. In this case, when you are finished, you give the other person the finished item and the pattern (without keeping a copy of the pattern for yourself), and the person pays you for your time/skills/services in making the item for them. This is okay to do.

 

It really isn't difficult to contact a designer/publisher and ask for permission to sell the items you make from their patterns.

[annmcc1976]

lol... wow soooo complcated!!! makes ya dizy at times, I think if I get asked again.. I'd say Pay me with the yarn for the project just buy extra for me to keep in my stash.. as that is what i'd spend the money on anyway LOL

 

cause 90% of afghans I make are out of my own head anyway.. i just get yarn n crochet.

 

but ive been asked to make a a few times to make one from a pattern and was offerd to be paid for my time. I normaly just tell them Get me the yarn and just buy me some exta yarn in diffrent colors you think are pretty and i'd like .

[Amy]

lol... wow soooo complcated!!! makes ya dizy at times, I think if I get asked again.. I'd say Pay me with the yarn for the project just buy extra for me to keep in my stash.. as that is what i'd spend the money on anyway LOL

 

No, sorry, that doesn't fit with our guidelines either (the part about paying in extra yarn). If you want to talk about what you're doing here, and you are making a profit (in either money or goods) that you are receiving for making the item, you need to contact the designer/publisher for permission to profit from their design.

 

Having someone reimburse you for yarn you purchased to make an item for them is okay; there's no profit of any kind involved. They're just paying you back for what you purchased for them.