Why do hats pancake vs bowl?

[Jayashiangel]

This is something I have been trying to figure out...I have used a pattern for hats for awhile and some yarns bowl and some pancake...I have noticed the softer the yarn for example Hobby Lobby I love this yarn vs Red heart the more pancakey....Suggestion/ideas to why etc....Thanks

[magiccrochetfan]

what do you mean by pancake?  

 

If you mean it is flat on top, my solution for that is to increase more slowly after i get the piece to about 3" or so in diameter.  However, these usually look fine when worn as your head creates the correct shape.  

[Jayashiangel]

What I mean is it stays flat and gets bigger like pancake instead of bowling (to create hat) it looks like a pancake even when doing the say last 25 rows of regular single stitches per hole...The hat pattern may work say fine w/ red heart yarn , you get a nice hat but if you use say Vanna Choice yarn you get a nice large circle that will not form into a hat....just a giant pancake...

[ReniC]

That's very interesting. I wonder if you need to adjust your hook size down because of the texture (softness) of the yarn.

Which pattern are you referring to?

[Real Deal]

I know what you mean. The softer yarns do this. Actually, it can help slouchy hats, but if you want the shape to hold better, the yarn has to be firmer, or decrease a small amount on each of the last 2 or 3 rounds around the head so it will hold better.

 

Also a lot of the yarns that say they are worsted weight are very light worsted weight. Using them double stranded would help.

[Granny Square]

Agree with all of the above, yarn weights are ranges, and some yarns are limper or stiffer than others in the same weight class (which is a range, so not all yarns are exactly the same in the same class); you might just have to make adjustments in increase rate or hook for slouchy hats especially.

[ReniC]

The same day I read and posted on this thread, my grandson asked me to make him a hat in the style like the knit one he received. I found this pattern and went right to work on it.

After finishing Rnd 10 as instructed in the pattern, the hat was "pancaking" just like Jayashiangel mentioned. I frogged down to Rnd 4 and re-doing a few times. I finally came up with a solution that seems to work, for me anyway.

Instead of adding increasing sc's on every round through Rnd 13, I worked 1 increase-rnd then 2 rnds of sc (no increases) and repeated. This gave just a slight cupping (bowling) effect to the top without a distinction where the increases end. I'll adjust how many rounds of increasing are to be added to make for the right width and length, then keep working on it to see how it goes.

[magiccrochetfan]

I've done what ReniC recommends, add in a round or 2 of no increases between the increase rounds.  

 

I think the issue is that the increases have a sort of "ripple effect" like when you throw a stone into water, the ripples spread across the whole pond.  Depending on personal gauge and yarn type, the "increase ripples" might spread all the way to the bottom of the hat, well into the part where you've stopped increasing.  You have to corral that tendency by using the non-increase rows among the increase rows.  

[ReniC]

Kathy- Your analogy is spot on. I wouldn't have thought to compare to your "ripple effect". Thank you. I hope Jayashiangel has seen this.