Please help! I need advice.

[HeatherR]

Last year I made my father-in-law an afghan. He's a huge Saints fan so I made him a black afghan with a big gold fleur de lie in the middle. I went back and made smaller fleur de lie's and put them all over the afghan. Its beautiful I really need to take some pictures. Well my dilemma is my Father-in-law works at the hospital in New Orleans, the team uses and has shown the blanket to some of the other Dr's and now they are offering me quite a bit to make them one. Now I came up with the design myself and I don't have the team name on it, but it does have the colors and symbol. So Im asking for advice on 1. should I make the Dr's one and 2 will it be safe to. I have looked up nfl guidelines and all I could find was I couldn't use the name with out permission but nothing on the colors or symbol. I'm just weary cause I don't want to get into any trouble but one the other hand they are offering me a good bit of money.

[jenniferelyse74]

The fleur de lis is a symbol that is by no means exclusive to the Saints. It has been used for hundreds of years, especially in France, as a symbol for royal dynasties, coats of arms, flags, artwork, etc. Now this is just my opinion, but if you do a black afghan with the fleur de lis symbol on it, it wouldn't be any sort of copyright or trademark infringement. And if you really wanted to, you could make me one too.

[magiccrochetfan]

I agree, the fleurs de lys and the color combination can't possibly be copyrighted or trademarked as both have been around much longer than this football team. Black and gold are colors for a lot of teams and the fleur de lys is an ancient symbol

 

eta: but I'm wrong see Amy's posts below

[goodtaste]

I would say, stick to the fleur the lys and to the colors. They cannot sue you if you don't actually put "Saints" in the thing.

 

Admin Note: This information is incorrect. See posts below for further clarification on the trademark issues involved, and confirmation from an attorney.

[sherryzzz]

You're going to be a very busy crocheter! I hope they don't all want their afghans before Christmas!

[Amy]

Actually, I believe it may be possible to trademark a specific fleur-de-lys shape/style and color combination for use in limited areas. If this is meant to be recognizable as a Saints item, then it could be considered trademark infringement or trademark dilution, both of which are actionable by the trademark owners. I'm not an attorney, and nobody is here. You shouldn't rely on the advice of anyone here as to whether a specific action you want to take is indeed legal. Most of us aren't qualified to give actual legal advice. Those who might be attorneys and qualified to give such advice are most likely not going to give official legal advice to a relative stranger on a message board.

 

For example, in NASCAR, the number of each driver, its color, font, style (italicized, etc) are all trademarked. And a numeral is even more commonplace and everyday than a fleur-de-lys. And NASCAR quite vigorously goes after people infringing on their trademarks.

 

Before you sell anything that is supposed to make people think of someone's registered trademark, it would be a good idea to seek advice from an intellectual property attorney. You can also look up trademarks for the Saints on the US Patent and Trademark office website. There, you can find contact information for their trademark attorneys. It's easy to send their attorneys a quick email to see if they think what you want to do is infringing upon their trademarks. This option is free!

 

Some might say the trademark attorneys will be biased in favor of the team, and that's true. However, they'll let you know if what you want to do is something they would attempt to send cease and desist letters and then sue over if they don't like what you're doing. That wouldn't mean they would win; just that if they ever found out about what you were doing, they would be prepared to take action. I don't know about you, but I'd rather avoid doing anything I knew would get the NFL's high-powered trademark attorneys (with a lot of financial backing behind them) after me.

[ratdog]

Could you track down an email address for the NFL team gear manufacturers and ask them directly?

[Amy]

Could you track down an email address for the NFL team gear manufacturers and ask them directly?

 

The companies that manufacture NFL team gear wouldn't answer a legal question about using a team's trademark. They would refer someone to the NFL's trademark attorneys.

 

Going to the US Patent and Trademark Office and searching for NFL trademarks will allow someone to find out contact information for the NFL's trademark attorneys. They are the ones who would be able to give an answer.

[HeatherR]

Thank you all for your advice but Amy is correct. I talked to a friend who is a lawyer and she said all nfl teams have franchise over colors and symbols. She said if I made the afghan it would, by any person be construed as the Saints team and would open myself up to possible legal action, which I deffintly don't . Also I can apply for permission to use the colors and logo but for every afghan I make I would have to send a part of the money to the Saints. So needless to say a lot of Dr.s are going to be very disappointed and me to. I could have used that money. But live and learn.

[Amy]

Heather, thank you so much for posting that an actual attorney has confirmed the information I provided. I know members (in general, not you in particular, Heather) often don't like hearing the information I share, and get a little upset with me for sharing it.

 

Even though I'm not an attorney, I have spent considerable time researching these issues and speaking with Crochetville's own intellectual property attorneys we keep on retainer (although I'd really rather not have to pay them to answer questions unless absolutely necessary). I share my general knowledge not just to keep Crochetville out of trouble, but to help keep our members from unwittingly getting themselves into trouble because they haven't done the same amount of research as I've had to do. Since I'm not an attorney, I'll also always still recommend members seek an actual official legal opinion when they have questions about some specific situation.

 

I've heard from some members (not in relation to this situation) that they feel I just "rain on people's parades" and keep them from making money. I'd really like everyone to understand that's not my intent at all. I'd much rather have people get disappointed before doing something than end up with a major lawsuit on their hands after the fact and end up in financial ruin. I really am honestly just trying to help people.

 

And I am sorry that you won't have the financial opportunity that you wanted. It couldn't hurt to contact the NFL's trademark attorneys, though. Perhaps they could offer you some kind of affordable cottage license to make the afghans, especially since there's an affiliation with the doctors at the hospital used by the team. The worst they can say is no, and then you're no worse off than you are right now. And they might find a way to work with you.

[Peggy85225]

Heather, thank you so much for posting that an actual attorney has confirmed the information I provided. I know members (in general, not you in particular, Heather) often don't like hearing the information I share, and get a little upset with me for sharing it.

 

Even though I'm not an attorney, I have spent considerable time researching these issues and speaking with Crochetville's own intellectual property attorneys we keep on retainer (although I'd really rather not have to pay them to answer questions unless absolutely necessary). I share my general knowledge not just to keep Crochetville out of trouble, but to help keep our members from unwittingly getting themselves into trouble because they haven't done the same amount of research as I've had to do. Since I'm not an attorney, I'll also always still recommend members seek an actual official legal opinion when they have questions about some specific situation.

 

I've heard from some members (not in relation to this situation) that they feel I just "rain on people's parades" and keep them from making money. I'd really like everyone to understand that's not my intent at all. I'd much rather have people get disappointed before doing something than end up with a major lawsuit on their hands after the fact and end up in financial ruin. I really am honestly just trying to help people.

 

And I am sorry that you won't have the financial opportunity that you wanted. It couldn't hurt to contact the NFL's trademark attorneys, though. Perhaps they could offer you some kind of affordable cottage license to make the afghans, especially since there's an affiliation with the doctors at the hospital used by the team. The worst they can say is no, and then you're no worse off than you are right now. And they might find a way to work with you.

 

 

I've never envied you your position. I do think your counsel is wise and should be appreciated by those you offer protection to.

[magiccrochetfan]

Thank you all for your advice but Amy is correct. I talked to a friend who is a lawyer and she said all nfl teams have franchise over colors and symbols. She said if I made the afghan it would, by any person be construed as the Saints team and would open myself up to possible legal action, which I deffintly don't . Also I can apply for permission to use the colors and logo but for every afghan I make I would have to send a part of the money to the Saints. So needless to say a lot of Dr.s are going to be very disappointed and me to. I could have used that money. But live and learn.

 

Well, on the bright side, now the one you have made is that much more special:)

[HeatherR]

Thanks Amy. I really don't see why people would be upset with you for your advice. I'm like you said I would rather find out before I put time, effort and money into a project that it wasnt legal rather than after. But I am, probley after Christmas going to try and get a cottage license or some type of permission. But thank you for your advice and all the work you do on the site.

[magiccrochetfan]

I know members (in general, not you in particular, Heather) often don't like hearing the information I share, and get a little upset with me for sharing it.

 

I've heard from some members (not in relation to this situation) that they feel I just "rain on people's parades" and keep them from making money. I'd really like everyone to understand that's not my intent at all. I'd much rather have people get disappointed before doing something than end up with a major lawsuit on their hands after the fact and end up in financial ruin. I really am honestly just trying to help people.

 

 

Amy, Just want to add how much I too appreciate the work you do to keep us informed about copyright/trademark issues, and to keep Crochetville free of infringements. I hate going to sites where copyrighted things are flagrantly tossed around, and people don't even seem to realize that there are rules about copying others' work.

[Amy]

Oh, thanks, everyone! It's so nice to know that my efforts are appreciated!

 

I think when I hear from those who are unhappy, it's more the fact that they need to express their feelings to someone, and I just happen to be the one most handy. Good thing I've got fairly thick skin and don't tend to take much of what some people direct at me personally. And it's also a good thing that very few people are ever truly nasty.

 

I can understand people being frustrated with things, just don't kill the messenger (me)! I have too many kitties depending on me to feed them! Speaking of which, they're demanding food right now. :cat

[HeatherR]

Well, on the bright side, now the one you have made is that much more special:)

 

 

 

Actually I'm feeling bad about making the afghan in the first place. I really had no idea that colors and symbols could be trademarked and if I did I wouldn't have made it. I've always thought if something is trademarked and you used it, its just like going into a store and stealing something. My friend, who is an attorney, advised that my father-in-law actually needs to stop talking about the blanket because, like Amy said, most franchises will turn a blind eye to a blanket you made but some will not. She had a client who cross stitched a huge MSU picture and had it on her blog and not only did MSU threaten legal action but also the frim who advertises for MSU. So needless to say people, be VERY careful using colors and logos.