Red Dog

[RED DOG]

I am making this vintage flower doily.  I was doing fine until I got to round 7.  I dont know I am doing the repeat wrong but when I get to the ch5 it does not look right.  I would also like to know what is considered the center of the doily when you already have a picot in the center of the loop.  The center of the loop is also mentioned in RD 6. If it’s a ch6 are you supposed to sc in the 3rd chain.  I am sending a picture of the instructions.  Any help woul be appreciated.  Thank you

Edited September 22, 2023 by RED DOG
Specify round

[Granny Square]

Is there a photo of the end item on the internet somewhere, or what is the name of the pattern, maybe I can find it somewhere?  I am guessing that this is a vintage pattern, probably from the 1940s, based on the 'spangle' thread called out.

What comes to mind is that if the center of the motif is round, like a flower motif is likely to be (and just scanning this, it looks like 8 petals), is that there might be 'extra stuff' extending beyond the round part,  likely at 4 'corners'  of the flower, to turn it into a square shape (suggested by 'motif' in the title).  I'm guessing the chain 5 might be part of the extra stuff in a corner, but it would help to see a photo.

(by extra stuff, I'm not sure if I can find an example but I've seen vintage bedspreads and tablecloth patterns with round motifs fill the gaps in the 'corners' with long thread loops that sort of look like an asterisk, for example; you presumably have to join motifs as you go)

Edited September 22, 2023 by Granny Square

[RED DOG]

2 hours ago, RED DOG said:

I am making this vintage flower doily.  I was doing fine until I got to round 7.  I dont know I am doing the repeat wrong but when I get to the ch5 it does not look right.  I would also like to know what is considered the center of the doily when you already have a picot in the center of the loop.  The center of the loop is also mentioned in RD 6. If it’s a ch6 are you supposed to sc in the 3rd chain.  I am sending a picture of the instructions.  Any help woul be appreciated.  Thank you

 

[RED DOG]

I sent the picture but I wanted to say It s the last round 7 where it says 2nd:Motiff.  I am alright until I get to that last 5 part and it does not look right and also when it says ch3 sc in next loop there is a picot in it so do you know where you put the sc.  I have so many questions.  Thank you

 

 

 

 

[Granny Square]

The 'chain 5, slst in 3rd chain from hook for picot?'  This is a way to make a DC with a picot on top of it, at the start of a row.  Normally a turning chain/beginning of round chain for a DC is 3 chains, right?  So the first 3 chains of the 5 are equivalent to a DC, and the other 2 chains plus the slip stitch are the picot 'into' that DC.  Well, it often is what I crossed off, but see my post below, it is something else in this pattern.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Granny Square

[ReniC]

Here's a link to the free pattern. 😉

[Granny Square]

Super, thanks for the link!  I've made a few doilies from that  site, but not that one (it wasn't on Ravelry, which is where I looked first).

[RED DOG]

14 hours ago, Granny Square said:

Super, thanks for the link!  I've made a few doilies from that  site, but not that one (it wasn't on Ravelry, which is where I looked first).

So for the second motif in the round 7 where you join.  I am fine until I get the ch5 to make another picot it doesn’t look right not sure where I am supposed to put my hook. 

[Granny Square]

Edited and I deleted a lot of stuff - this pattern is really unusual in that it is basically written to be worked edge first, then re-started in the middle and work toward the edge.  I make a lot of doilies and this is a bit daunting to have them meet up in the middle without issues, at least for me as I'm always tweaking doilies one way or the other to lie flat, due to differences between my stitch tension and the designers'.

It starts by telling you how to make the flowers, and and how join them together to form at the edge of the doily, and then re-start in the middle and work toward the edge if I am reading this right   And I guessed incorrectly earlier about the picot, this picot is worked worked over a chain space, not a DC.

To answer your question about where to put your hook for a picot; I probably do it a different way than others (I learned before the internet, and just sort of settled on a 'spot in the stitch' that looked good to me).  I suggest looking at  some tutorials and playing with it a bit to see what pleases your eye.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Granny Square

[RED DOG]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:11 PM, Granny Square said:

Edited and I deleted a lot of stuff - this pattern is really unusual in that it is basically written to be worked edge first, then re-started in the middle and work toward the edge.  I make a lot of doilies and this is a bit daunting to have them meet up in the middle without issues, at least for me as I'm always tweaking doilies one way or the other to lie flat, due to differences between my stitch tension and the designers'.

It starts by telling you how to make the flowers, and and how join them together to form at the edge of the doily, and then re-start in the middle and work toward the edge if I am reading this right   And I guessed incorrectly earlier about the picot, this picot is worked worked over a chain space, not a DC.

To answer your question about where to put your hook for a picot; I probably do it a different way than others (I learned before the internet, and just sort of settled on a 'spot in the stitch' that looked good to me).  I suggest looking at  some tutorials and playing with it a bit to see what pleases your eye.

 

 

Hello

I have finished both pieces of the doily and the 31st round joining the wreath I just don’t get it. For the 4 dl cluster she says 1 dc in 8th and 9th picot of any flower (I get that) 1 dc in in 1st and 2nd picot ( Iget that) but she says keep last loop of each dc on hook.  How do you have one loop I have 2.  On the next part join in next picot of same flower how should I be joining.  Any help would be appreciated

 

 

 

 

[Granny Square]

I don't have the pattern in front of me, but in general a cluster is similar-ish to how you make a decrease 4 DCs into 1.  For a 4 stitch cluster (or decrease of 5 into 1 stitch), there should be 5 loops on your hook until the last step where you YO and pull thru all 5 loops, and then you will be left with 1 loop.

(generic instructions for making a cluster of several stitches into 1, or a decrease of several stitches into 1): You make the first DC, but don't finish the last yarn over and pull thru--this leaves 2 loops on the hook.  (the 1 loop is the one that is always on your hook until you finish off, the second ones belongs to the incomplete DC; so you always have 1 more loop on the hook than you have stitches before completing the last step of combining several stitches into 1)

You make the second DC, in the same incomplete way--this leaves 3 loops on the hook. 

Ditto for the 3rd and 4th DC, you now have 5 loops on the hook  To join them into a cluster, you yarn over and pull thru all the 5 loops.  

In this pattern, the first and second DC are made into the 8th & 9th picots of 1 flower(A), and the third and fourth DCs into the beginning 2 picots around the next flower(B).  So before you even started this transaction, you have 1 loop on your hook. You add 2 more loops as you make 2 partial stitches on picot #8 & 9, and 2 more loops when you make 2 partial stitches in the next 2 picots - that's 5 loops on your hook according to my calculations, 4 from what you just did, plus the one that is always there holding the thread on the hook waiting for you to do the next thing.

This is a whole lot less complicated than it sounds.

[RED DOG]

7 minutes ago, Granny Square said:

I don't have the pattern in front of me, but in general a cluster is similar-ish to how you make a decrease 4 DCs into 1.  For a 4 stitch cluster (or decrease of 5 into 1 stitch), there should be 5 loops on your hook until the last step where you YO and pull thru all 5 loops, and then you will be left with 1 loop.

(generic instructions for making a cluster of several stitches into 1, or a decrease of several stitches into 1): You make the first DC, but don't finish the last yarn over and pull thru--this leaves 2 loops on the hook.  (the 1 loop is the one that is always on your hook until you finish off, the second ones belongs to the incomplete DC; so you always have 1 more loop on the hook than you have stitches before completing the last step of combining several stitches into 1)

You make the second DC, in the same incomplete way--this leaves 3 loops on the hook. 

Ditto for the 3rd and 4th DC, you now have 5 loops on the hook  To join them into a cluster, you yarn over and pull thru all the 5 loops.  

In this pattern, the first and second DC are made into the 8th & 9th picots of 1 flower(A), and the third and fourth DCs into the beginning 2 picots around the next flower(B).  So before you even started this transaction, you have 1 loop on your hook. You add 2 more loops as you make 2 partial stitches on picot #8 & 9, and 2 more loops when you make 2 partial stitches in the next 2 picots - that's 5 loops on your hook according to my calculations, 4 from what you just did, plus the one that is always there holding the thread on the hook waiting for you to do the next thing.

This is a whole lot less complicated than it sounds.

Thank you for answering so quickly but what about after you do the clusters its ch 3 join in next picot of same flower, ch3 join in center stitch between picots of next loop repeat 4 times.  What stitch do you use to join

 

[Granny Square]

Hmm,  I don't think I'd have caught that as something odd (but  crochet doily patterns probably of this vintage were a lot more terse than modern patterns).  Since you don't want the join to 'show' more than it has to, I'd say join with a slip stitch, which is pretty typical for lace like this. 

Come to think about it, I think a pattern telling you to join with out adding 'using a slst' isn't that unusual; if you were working in joined rounds on a sweater, and it said to 'join the last stitch to the first stitch of the round, chain 3', you'd make a slip stitch without questioning, right?  (again, this may just be 'me' learning to crochet using terse hand-me-down 1940s patterns...)

Edited November 10, 2023 by Granny Square

[RED DOG]

I think you are absolutely right I thought the slip stitch would be the way to go.  Thanks so much for your expertise and taking the time to help me.  Have a wonderful day