Brenda Grobler's "Tatum's Jacket" Pattern

[Lexi1179]

Hi All,

I'm fairly new to crochet (been knitting for years and used crocheting mostly for edging, seaming etc.), and I've started my first actual crochet garment pattern: Brenda Grobler's "Tatum's Jacket," to be exact.

I'm confused about one of the instructions for the 2nd row (and after that, the 3rd row) of the shell-pattern section (the "skirt," as the pattern calls it).

Here is the link to the pattern instructions:
http://vinniscolourspatterns.co.za/nikkim-patterns/

 

Scroll down to listing P22: Tatum's Jacket

Bear in mind: This pattern USES THE UK-TERMS for crochet, not the US-terms. (So "1 treble" or "1 tr" translates to US terms as "1 double crochet" or "1 dc".)

Could someone please tell me: How does one make "2 tr between 1st and 2nd tr"? Or, similarly, make tr stitches between "2nd and 3rd tr of shell"?

I realise the idea must be to use the row just worked below as a guide, and to find stitch spaces in it, into which the current row's stiches should be made.

But I can't understand *where* to find the s

[Lexi1179]

I worked out how to post photos at last.

 

Be gentle, and remember this is my very first ever entirely-crochet project!

 

I may still re-do the sleeves to try and make the seams neater. But overall, I'm happy. And it is just my practise one ☺️ I'll also still block it.

 

I used up quite a few yarn-stash quarter skeins - they were great practise for changing colours and joining new yarns.

[Lexi1179]

Hello again, everyone -

 

Contrary to my expectations, the shell pattern skirt was no trouble at all (thanks to the tip about the "in between" spaces on stitchdiva! Thanks again!), and definitely also contrary to my expectations, I'm having a terrible time seaming...

 

The shoulder seams are fine (I did them using slip stitch), but the sleeves look awful when sewn in, no matter which way I try the seam...

 

If you have any advice, I'd be very grateful indeed. I'd hate to ruin this piece (even though it's just my practise version - but still) with poor finishing, and am running out of ideas despite the various videos I've looked into! (How odd is it that after having no trouble at all seaming all manner of knitted pieces including lace, entrelac, and even miniature clothes for dolls, now when I need to seam a simple little jacket in crocheted fabric, I'm completely messing it up, at least in my estimation...?! Yikes!)

 

To be specific: I am trying to join the sleeves to the bodice, i.e. one piece of "vertical" hdc fabric joining another piece of "horizontal" hdc fabric.

 

Are there videos specific to this type of sleeve/bodice seam in hdc fabric that I could watch? Or can one of you explain how I should be doing it, or how you yourselves do this type of seam?

 

Thanks in advance!

Lexi

[Granny Square]

Huh - I wonder why they didn't just have you join the yarn at the armhole, and work the sleeve (in the round-after seaming the shoulder) out from there?     (I am one to find ways to working around seaming if I can).  That's an adorable little sweater.

 

I zoomed in on the pattern photo, I can clearly see the stitches used to sew it on.  But, the average person wouldn't notice, I don't think.

 

I've been crocheting longer than knitting...my impression is that crochet stitches have so much more texture than knit stitches (stockinette anyway), you can get away with 'fudging' more.  There's nothing as invisible as Kitchener or mattress stitches for crochet, although the only thing that I can suggest is a version of mattress stitch, where you are working from the front and can control what it looks like.  If there are more stitches in the sleeve than the armhole, I'd arrange the extras at the top, since that's where sleeves have ease normally.

 

There are crochet mattress stitch tutorials online, but I'm not finding one that shows joining vertical & horizontal pieces together.

[Lexi1179]

Thank you for your reply, Granny Square! I was wondering the same thing about picking up and crocheting in the round, for the sleeves. I think I will try exactly that for the next, non-practise version! (Anything I need to watch out for particularly, when doing this little pattern alteration?)

 

I did try mattress stitch as well, but I'm guessing I need to adjust my technique more than I have. The knitting habits are proving hard to shake! I've never joined 2 pieces of crochet before, which I imagine is why the very familiar mattress stitch didn't work the way I tried it. I'll look for a few more videos.

 

Thank you again so much for your input! This forum is really amazing!

 

Lexi

[magiccrochetfan]

Seaming in crochet is a lot more challenging than in knitting in my experience.    the same basic idea as mattress stitch is also called woven seam in crochet for some reason, so you might use that as a search term.  here is one description http://www.crochetme.com/glossary/woven-seams   for working into sides of sts.   when you can work into the top of sts it is more like doing it in knitting.    i always feel like it is a very seat of the pants kind of operation but as long as the seam sts are fairly invisible, I call it good lol

[redrosesdz]

I'm not sure how this would work, but here's a video on grafting in crochet.  I've used it for a few seams, but not for sleeves.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQLMRy1pKcc

 

I was wondering the same thing as Granny Square ... why in the world didn't they have you do the sleeves in the round?  You can turn in the round as easily as you can turn at the end of rows.  Just add a slip stitch to finish the round before turning.

[Granny Square]

Your'e welcome!  And yeah, mattress stitch is easier when you are joining 2 pieces going the same direction.

 

For picking up and working in the round, the biggest thing you'd have to worry about is the number of armhole stitches versus the starting number of stitches for the sleeve.  SC (UK double) worked into the sides of stitches is usually a 1:1 ratio, but with taller (UK) HTR you'd have to throw in extra stitches every so often, so that may take some fiddling to get the numbers to come out (changing the sleeve shaping frequency).  

 

In this pattern the sleeve is worked cuff up, so you're going to have to read the sleeve pattern upside down - in other words, if you're making the small size, instead of starting with 26 HTR and increasing to 38, you'd start with 38 and decrease to 26.

 

Another thing - if you do a crochet stitch in the round, versus flat, the fabric looks different.  Since the bodice was worked flat, if you want the sleeve to look the same, you need to turn - which you can do in the round in crochet.  I'd put the turn point under the arm where the seam would be, because it will show a little, since you'd expect a seam there.  After completing the first round into the armhole:  instead of just starting the next round into stitch 1 of the first round, slip stitch into the top of stitch 1 (to join the first and last stitch of the round together).  Chain 1 (this brings the work up to the level of the next round), turn, and work back the way you came.  Repeat, of course spacing your decreases as you need to along the 'seam'.  (the turning chain doesn't count as a stitch)

 

Also... back to the earlier point about the tops of the crochet stitches being slightly offset...this is part of the reason that crochet looks different made in the round (in a spiral, same side facing, like knitting in the round), versus turned.  Worked in a spiral, the stitch made into the top of the stitch below won't be directly above the stitch below...and this drift compounds each round...so it's hard to make a straight 'seam'.   If turned each row/round, the skew cancels itself out.

 

stitches in a spiral

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Stitches made turning each row

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///////

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///////

 

edit, oops, didn't see the replies on page 2.  Magiccrochetfan found a tutorial on joining sides, and Redrosesdz found one on joining row tops, but I couldn't find on on joining a side to a top.  A crochet graft is just not going to look as seamless as you can get with knitting unfortunately.

[Lexi1179]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies!

 

The videos are great, especially the one where pinwheel motifs are grafted: I think I will take the sleeves back off my practise baby jacket and try that technique there.

 

If it doesn't work the way I hope, I will go ahead with picking up and crocheting the sleeves in the round. I'm just a little nervous about that, since I've never done an entire project in crochet before, let alone changed a pattern!

 

My practise jacket is worked in woollen yarn, whereas the actual jacket will be in the recommended Vinnis Colours Nikkim cotton yarn, so I anticipate a few swatches before I even get started. I'll try out a horizontal-to-vertical graft on cotton-yarn swatches as well.

 

I'm posting from my phone, and I think that makes it impossible for me to post photos? I can't seem to find a button for that, otherwise I'd have posted a photo of what I have so far.

[Amy]

Lexi, no worries at all! There is no official or legal requirement or anything that people shouldn't provide direct links to PDF files on the internet. We don't even have an official Crochetville rule or policy about it. We just think that it's nice, whenever possible, to help a company out with a bit more site traffic.

 

The only reason this came up is there was a concern that wording in the PDF file, which is probably just a standard disclaimer, gives the impression the pattern might be a for-sale pattern, in which case we couldn't allow a link to a direct download. So I went back to the main pages on the company website and found that they do indeed make it available for free on their site.

 

If I hadn't been checking things out to verify we weren't accidentally linking to a pattern that was supposed to be for sale, I wouldn't have been looking at the link or doing anything about it really.

It was just an opportunity to help people think about some of the broader issues involved in how they link to things. Because, really, most people don't have a reason to think about that stuff on a regular basis.

[redrosesdz]

It looks really cute! 

 

What is strange about the pattern is that they had you make the sleeves from the bottom up and then attach them.  When I've done baby/toddler sweaters, the sleeves were always attached in round one and then worked from the top down.  There was no seaming at all.

 

If you decide to follow the pattern again, one thing you can do is crochet a round of SC to the armholes.  This creates a clean edge for joining.

[Lexi1179]

Thanks, redrosesdz!

 

Good idea about the round of sc to help make a clean edge. I'll try that as well with a few sample pieces that need horizontal-to-vertical joining, just to be able to do several types of seams for crochet fabric. Lots of options suddenly!

[Granny Square]

That's adorable, well done! Eve the color scheme.

[Lexi1179]

Thank you, Granny Square! I'm pleased you guys are liking it!

[Lexi1179]

Hello again, everyone!

 

Here is the finished baby jacket at last. Thank you all so much for your invaluable advice and encouragement! I'll be back with the next project, no doubt!

 

Have a lovely weekend,

Lexi.

[Granny Square]

Wonderful!  I bet it's getting easier, isn't it?    This may open up opportunities for your knitting, too.  Like binding off - using a hook is so much easier.

[redrosesdz]

Awwww!  It's adorable!!  You did a wonderful job and I'm sure it's going to be treasured. 

[Lexi1179]

Hello Amy, to you and everyone, including the yarn company, I want to say: Please accept my apologies for posting the link in a way that did not give credit where credit is due! I really am sorry. Despite reading the Town Hall articles on the rules and guidelines of Crochetville carefully, I'm afraid I must not have realised exactly how to post links. Vinnis Colours Nikkim is indeed a lovely yarn, and I have ordered several skeins in order to crochet the lovely little jacket designed by Brenda Grobler. I'm making a practise version with several different yarns, just to make sure I can get it right when I use the proper, recommended yarn.

 

Thanks again to all who posted with their kind and helpful comments and replies to what must be frequently asked questions. I'm sure I'll have a few more, and can't wait to read what you all have to say about them.

 

I'll be back tomorrow probably - that's when I'm starting the shell pattern skirt!

Lexi

[Amy]

Just wanted to let everyone know I edited the link in the original post, and WHY I did it.

 

The pattern is freely available on the yarn company's website, so there is no problem at all linking to it.

 

However, the original link went straight to the PDF file, which doesn't give the yarn company the benefit of anybody seeing their actual web pages. So I switched the link the page for all their patterns for the Nikkim yarn, and gave instructions on how to find the particular pattern.

 

When companies make free patterns available, I like to show our appreciation by linking to an actual page on their site instead of directly to a PDF file, so they hopefully get  a little more benefit from the site traffic.

 

This way, maybe people will see other patterns they'd like to use, and maybe eventually use some of their yarn.

[Lexi1179]

Alright, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much!

 

I think I'm getting the hang of it, and the neckline has a lovely gentle and even slope to it the way I've done it (the right half: left half still to come), so I guess I got away with it!

 

Thanks again. I'll be sure to post a photo when I'm finished. And no doubt I'll have a few more "totally obvious beginner" questions until then :-)

Mlexi

[redrosesdz]

Most patterns assume that you know how to do the basic crochet stitches.  So, it would be uncommon for the designer to mention how to do an HDC.  The exceptions are beginner patterns and "how to crochet" books.  Just like it would uncommon for a knit pattern to tell you how to do the knit and purl stitches.

 

First of all, just like knitting, there is no "wrong" way to do it.  There are common ways and whatever works best for you ways to do things.  So, I can answer with the common way.  For the neckline, you're decreasing each row by one stitch by skipping the stitch on the neckline side.  Your odd rows are starting at the neckline and your even rows are ending at the neckline.  You still need your turning chain at the beginning of each row. 

 

For odd rows, chain 1 (or 2) for height, crochet into the 2nd stitch and across to the last stitch.  Don't crochet into the previous row's turning chain.  This decreases the number of stitches by one, since you're skipping the first stitch.

 

For even rows, chain 1 (or 2) for height, crochet into the 1st stitch and across to the next to last stitch.  The last stitch is the last <.  Don't count the previous row's turning chain.  This decreases the number of stitches by one, since you're skipping the last stitch.

 

There is no need to slip stitch for the neckline.  If the pattern wanted you to slip stitch, it would have said to do that.  However, if you're creating a slope on the neckline side and you're decreasing by one stitch on each row, then you can continue.  There's no crochet police coming to your home to tell you that you did it wrong. 

[Lexi1179]

Hello, and thank you for replying! Yes, that answers almost all of my questions!

 

A few are left, if you wouldn't mind:

 

- Is the fact that this pattern doesn't specifically mention the YOH needed to work HDC sts simply due to the designer *assuming* people know to do this? (Still sort of sloppy though, if that's the explanation...)

 

- The sl st to shape the neckline issue: I've done sl st after all, but ended up having the correct number of sts in each row. That must mean that I automatically worked into the turning chain, yes?

The way I worked on the "sl st rows" was this: work to the last st called for, turn work, NO extra ch but just go right into the st to be slipped, do the sl st, and work the rest of the sts in that row. Was that the wrong way to do it?

 

Thanks!!

Lexi

[redrosesdz]

Welcome to Crochetville!

 

Since you're more familiar with US terms, I'm going to answer that way.  First, not all designers use the same number of turning chains to get height.  Everyone's crochet tension is a bit different.  They most likely crochet loosely, so they're specifying only 1 chain for the hdc height.  You can either do one chain and pull up the loop slightly to get the height or you can do two chains.  Try it both ways and see which one you like.  Here's a list about turning chains ....

 

SC: chain 1 for the turning chain, turning chain never counts as a stitch, first stitch is in the first < and the last stitch is in the last <.

HDC: chain 1 or 2 for the turning chain, sometimes the chain counts as a stitch and sometimes it doesn't.  The pattern lets you know.

DC: chain 2 or 3 for the turning chain, turning chain counts as a stitch, first stitch is in the next < and the last stitch is in the top of the previous row's turning chain.

TR: chain 3 or 4 for the turning chain, same rules as DC.

 

For your pattern, the HDC's turning chain doesn't count as a stitch and the pattern assumes 1 chain for the turning chain.  So, you're going to crochet into the first < all the way to the last <.  Ignore the turning chain.  If you decide to do 2 chains for the turning chain, you'll need to chain once more for the foundation.  When you're doing the "leave 1 st unworked" then you're correct on even rows, you turn before that last stitch.  On odd rows, you start in the next stitch, instead of the first one.  There's no need to slip stitch, since you're ignoring the turning chain.

 

I hope this answers both of your questions!  I can't wait to see it finished.  It's darling! 

[Lexi1179]

And another question (sorry - they keep croppingup as I go along):

 

To shape the neckline, the instructions call for "1 st at neckline unworked" for six rows (11 - 16).

 

On even rows, I can obviously just turn before that row's final st is worked.

 

But, for the uneven rows, I take it that I use a slip stitch to get to the second st of that row to start working that row?

 

Thanks for all your help already! I'm having such a blast actually making wearble items instead of just edging!

Lexi

[Lexi1179]

Another question:

 

The pattern asks for only 1 turning chain per bodice row, even though the bodice is worked in UK htr (= US hdc).

 

Is this likely to be (A) a misprint, or (B) a deliberate instruction to make the fabric denser?

 

Also: the pattern does NOT mention the YOH needed to create a htr stitch...??

 

Here is a quote from the pattern, showing these 2 very strange aspects:

 

Bodice:

Make 87 (101, 108) ch.

Row 1:

(RS) Insert hook in second ch from

hook and work 1htr in each ch

across, turn

(86 (100, 107) htr)

.

Row 2:

Ch1, work 1htr in each htr across, turn.

 

I'm just going to make two more swatches, one with 1 turning ch per row, and another with 2 turning ch per row, and see which looks better, and how the gauge is affected, but I'd still appreciat your input, since this strikes me as quite odd.

 

Edited to add: Another thought occurred to me - is it possible that this pattern counts the ch (loop) ON THE HOOK as the 1st ch, for some inexplicable reason? I'm just trying to work out why this pattern doesn't ask for the standard TWO turning ch for each row of htr (US = hdc)...

 

Thanks!

Lexi

[magiccrochetfan]

Yay!  !

 

Crochetville is pretty wonderful isn't it!  We get some good discussions going and I've learned a lot by hanging out here.  

 

it's pretty easy to post a photo so let us know if you need help when you get to that point.