hook variation

[rivkee]

These are all size G hooks. They're all 4.0mm, except the one at the bottom, by Boye, which is 4.25mm. But I've noticed that not only are they not the same size, they produce different size stitching, with the same yarn. And not only are they not all the same size, they're also different shapes (I'm referring to the actual hook part, not the entire implement).

 

Does anyone know what the sizing refers to? In other words, from where to where is 4.0mm? And what's up with the varying shapes?

 

I'm asking for two reasons:

 

1. I think it's interesting.

2. I want to understand how varying hooks of the same size will produce different stitching.

[magiccrochetfan]

the size is measured at the shaft of the hook, as shown on this drawing http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/getting-hooked-on-crocheting.html

 

it is the diameter of the hook at that point.

 

you can get a knitchek http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?CATID=cat2874&PRODID=prd2736 at a craft store to measure hooks. it won't work if the hook is bigger than the shaft. although if there were no thumb rest you could measure from the other end.

 

also you can just lay the hook on a ruler that has mm and get a good idea of the thickness of the shaft.

 

here are the standards for US hooks http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/hooks.html

i don't know if all hooks from US companies conform to the standards now, but older hooks probably don't. Hooks from companies outside the US, like Addi, are marked only with mm.

 

different people like different shapes and types of hooks, that's about the best answer I have as to why there are different shapes.

[jimbo]

I think you came across the conumdrum of crochet. Hooks are like snowflakes, you know. No two are exactly alike. But to answer your question.. the size is measured at the shank, which is the part of the hook between the thumb rest and the start of the taper. And by the "taper" I mean the neck of the hook that leads gradually from the shank to the bowl or what I prefer to call the "gullet". Shanks are different lengths in different hooks and as you've discovered, can be different sizes even when marked with a specific size. Some brands are close to the actual size marked, some aren't. Now you can buy hook gauges that can be used to measure hook sizes. BUT even the gauges aren't necessarily accurate. So whatcha gonna do?? So, you can find a hook that's a perfect 4mm, i'm sure. BUT would it be the same size as the "4mm" hook used to establish the pattern you're working from?

Also, you have at least two different hook styles in the group you show. The top hook is an "in-line" hook and the bottom three metal hooks look to be the Boye style. The "In line" hook has a head thats the same size as the shank or maybe a hair smaller. The Boye style hooks have hook heads that are bigger than the shank. Not sure if the head size makes a difference with gauge, but it seems logical that it might.

The length of the neck makes a difference too. If you have a hook with a long neck, like the gold hook, compared to a shorter neck like you see in the pink hook, more of the hook needs to pass through the yarn loops before the actual hook size at the shank contacts and shapes the yarn loop, so conceivably you have a good opportunity, if you don't move the yarn onto the shank, of crocheting even smaller than the actual hook size. Its a balancing act. Short tapers aren't very comfortable... the yarn bumps up onto the shank in a kind of jerky motion. Long tapers let the yarn glide easily to the shank, but it takes a longer stroke to get the yarn from the gullet to the shank. Not to mention tension. I tell ya, I'm just amazed that you guys are able to do the beautiful work you do, given all those variables.

My hat's off to crocheters!!

[jimbo]

oh.... I was typing while the other post came in. Looking at the "Dummies" drawing, what they call the "shaft" is what I call the "shank" And what they call the "throat", I call the neck.

And the "Knitchek" is what i've been using for the years I've been making hooks. Not super accurate, but they're pretty standard, it seems. Another useful gauge is the "Crochet Hook Size Gauge" by Gourmet Crochet. It'll measure Boye hooks and at least the one I have is more accurate than the metal Bates gauge.

[katyallen815]

well, learn somthing every day I guess. To me, it really doesn't matter though, i just use the one closest to what is recommended, and or the one Im comfortable with that will through my own experiences, come out pretty close to the recommended, and then I just let the stitches fall where they may! However I do agree, hooks should be more standardized, for sure. I wonder, if there are any knitters out there, that wonder the same about said needles??

[magiccrochetfan]

my thoughts on the variations in hook sizes....I'm going to use the one that gets me the best results, no matter what letter or mm is stamped on it. Like Jimbo said, the gauges aren't completely accurate either, and I've thought about getting a caliper so I could really measure my hooks, especially the small steel hooks where the hook is always bigger than the shank/shaft. But still I would use the hook that felt the best in my hand and that I liked the results the best---pretty much like what you said, Katy.

 

as far as knitting needles, I haven't noticed much size discrepancy, but there is definitely a difference in the stitching feel of bamboo vs. metal.

 

In any case I always have to swatch and see what works best. Most of my hooks i've had for decades so i guess I'm pretty used to them by now:lol but the yarn/thread can surprise me!

[MaryPat]

Some crocheters tend to slide their loops off more at the throat rather than at the shaft. For those type of crocheters, their use of a G hook will produce something smaller than if they tend to slide loops off from the shaft. For this reason, the inline line hooks are preferred by a large number of crocheters. There is no difference in diameter between the throat and the shaft.

[jimbo]

I'm really fascinated by hook head/neck design. Another thought about gauge and hook size. You see the top hook in the post is in line and the face of the hook head (the part that faces you when you point the hook away) is flat. Now look at the Boye style hooks. You see the faces are rounded and lead to yarn guide indentations on opposite sides of the head. My thinking is that those recesses let the yarn form a smaller bight that won't tend to open the stitch so much when pulled through. The flat face on that in-line hook, on the other hand has no yarn guides so the hook head is effectively increased in size by the thickness of the yarn on both sides of the head as it's pulled through.

 

Hooks just fascinate me. So many little aspects that contribute to how the hook performs. I'd think someone could do easily a PHD thesis on hook geometry.

[rivkee]

Thanks for all the responses. I actually emailed the makers of Tulip hooks, and they sent me a photo that illustrates exactly how the difference works. Really helpful. I blogged about it, so feel free to check it out:

 

http://crochetmuch.blogspot.com/2011/04/understanding-underway.html

 

I"m not done with my research yet, though. I want to see exactly what differences result in what stitch variations. If I can get my husband to help, I might attempt a video with the results. Then again, I might be too lazy for that.

[MaryPat]

Thanks for all the responses. I actually emailed the makers of Tulip hooks, and they sent me a photo that illustrates exactly how the difference works. Really helpful. I blogged about it, so feel free to check it out:

 

http://crochetmuch.blogspot.com/2011/04/understanding-underway.html

 

I"m not done with my research yet, though. I want to see exactly what differences result in what stitch variations. If I can get my husband to help, I might attempt a video with the results. Then again, I might be too lazy for that.

 

I can answer the question on your blog on whether the throat is a standard length: no. When I was first crocheting I noticed the new hooks had longer throats. Now I own a huge number and brands of hooks. The throats are different.

[dibuzz]

Fascinating, I'd never thought about it before. I just assumed that a 4mm hook was a 4mm hook

[rivkee]

I've done a little experiment. You can view it here:

http://crochetmuch.blogspot.com/2011/04/hook-experiment.html