Overlap and join

[Bonnie J Jean]

Working on a doll dress, and got stuck on one of the instructions.  It states " Working in bls only,dc in each dc, overlap 4 dc at beg and end of row; join in 5th dc".   Is what I don't understand is overlap and join.  Thank you in advance for any help I can get.

[Bonnie J Jean]

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly.  You make 4 double crochet (dc) at the beginning of the row; then dc in each dc working in the back loops (bls) only; placing a 4 dc at the end of row; then adding (join) a 5th dc at the end of the row to make that row a little longer than others.

[magiccrochetfan]

17 minutes ago, sueq669 said:

I know this is an old post, but thank you so much!  I got stuck on an old doll pattern....actually, it is the same pattern, but I am working on Eileen and just couldn't figure it out in my head!  So a year later this post is still relevant.  Thank you all!!!

Yay!  So glad it helped you.  Welcome to the ville

[sueq669]

I know this is an old post, but thank you so much!  I got stuck on an old doll pattern....actually, it is the same pattern, but I am working on Eileen and just couldn't figure it out in my head!  So a year later this post is still relevant.  Thank you all!!!

[magiccrochetfan]

I'm happy for you!

[Granny Square]

  Yay, glad it worked out!

[Bonnie J Jean]

Proudly, I am posting a picture of the new dress.   Thank you for your assistance

[magiccrochetfan]

Ok, take what you have made so far and lay it on a table, with the last row you made at the top.  you want to have the wrong side of the last row facing you.  at one edge you have the first stitches you made in the row and at the other edge are the last stitches you just made.  

 

take the first stitches and fold that edge toward the center.  now take the last stitches and fold them toward the center so they are on top of the first stitches---this way you have your working loop on top where you can work with it.  overlap the first 4 sts with the last 4 sts.  

 

make a slip stitch in the next stitch of the lower layer, this is the "join in 5th dc".  

[Bonnie J Jean]

Up til now have you been making a flat piece?

Yes.

[magiccrochetfan]

Up til now have you been making a flat piece?

[Bonnie J Jean]

First of all, this has been confusing from the start.  I have been able to research some of this.  After Granny Square's last comment, it makes a little more since because I go into rounds after this last step.  Trying to figure out what you both are saying in order to finish my dress.  Is there a site where it shows something like this that I can watch?   It would make it easier than trying to read and do.  My own apologies for not being able to comprehend very well.  Thank you both for trying to work with me, and not giving up on me.

[Granny Square]

" Working in bls only,dc in each dc, overlap 4 dc at beg and end of row; join in 5th dc"

 

Re-reading this, I think what I said in post 8 assumed something the pattern didn't say.  It doesn't say to crochet those 4 stitches together.  It says to work the whole row, then begin to work in the round (creating a tube) by joining (slip stitching) into the 5th stitch of the row.  Bring the beginning of the row nose to nose with the end of the row (so you have an unconnected tube) then move the last stitch of the row past the first 4 stitches then slip stitch into the 5th stitch.  It makes a tube of the same size as I was describing, but they aren't 'sewn (crocheted) together' for the overlapping 4 stitches. The first 4 stitches of that row are now disconnected and will (presumably) not be worked going forward.

 

The way I described it in the above paragraph puts the first 4 stitches UNDER the last 4, so the flap is in the back.  The instructions are not clear on that point.

 

Is your confusion the word 'join'?  I noticed in your last question you were using the word 'row'.   Join is not a word commonly used in rows (except to join another color maybe), but it has meaning  when you are working in the round.  

 

A normal round - After finishing the last stitch in a (non spiral) round, the next stitch you encounter is the first stitch of the round.  To start the next round, you join the last stitch to the fist stitch of the round by a slst in the top of the first stitch, chaining up, and starting a new round.  This joining does not add a stitch, it just connects the ends of the rounds together before building the next round.

 

In your case, you are transitioning from working flat in rows, to working in a tube in the round, when you make the slip stitch into the 5th stitch of the last round.  You will now start to work around the tube, which is comprised of all but the first 4 stitches of what was the last round.

 

I'm sorry if I confused you by saying to crochet the overlap together.   Leaving the flap loose might make it easier to dress the doll.

[magiccrochetfan]

what i did was:   i crocheted a row of dc for the "dc in each dc" part.  then I overlapped the first and last 4 stitches of that row, for the part where it says "overlap 4 dc at beg and end of row".

then i made a slip stitch in the next stitch, for the part that says "join in 5th dc".

[Granny Square]

Magic - I just did it in my head, I hope it's right.

 

Yay, fleet fingers for once   (Bonnie Jean, Magiccrochetfan often seem to post at the same time in this forum, but she usually pushes the post button before me )

[magiccrochetfan]

Hey GrannySquare!   You are the quick typist today lol

the way i did it was a bit different, you are probably right 

[magiccrochetfan]

Oh!   lightbulb in my brain just went off I think, reading the last 3 posts.   

 

So far have you made a strip?  if so, i think this means to turn the flat piece into a tube:  overlap the 4 sts at the ends of the strip, and join in the 5th stitch.   so work the row of back loop only dc in each dc, then overlap the ends and join in the 5th st.  

 

i made a tiny sample and that does work but it might not be what the patern means 

[Granny Square]

You are just overlapping and crocheting thru a double fabric to 'sew them together'.  The distance is over 4 stitches, so you overlap 4 stitches of 1 side over 4 stitches of the other.  Where they overlap, you will have a double thickness of stitch-tops facing you; since it said to use the back loop only (I assume that is what is meant by bls, it's usually written blo), I'd go thru the back 3 loops (back loop of the top fabric, both loops of the back fabric).  This leaves the front loop unused, which should match the rest of the row/round.

 

At this point you've already joined the 2 fabrics, so the next instruction to join in the 5th stitch may be to establish where the new beginning of the round will be.

[Bonnie J Jean]

Granny Square - Thank you for more information.  That was what I was thinking last night.   How to do it is the question, though.

[Bonnie J Jean]

It's the "Dee" outfit.  The first one.  Yes, I have read the entire book.  Also, I have researched it online; but came up blank.  It is row 9 that I am stuck on.  Figured out the other steps with online help, along with another book I have.  Unable to find any information about "overlap 4 dc at beg and end of row; join in 5th dc".  

[Granny Square]

The only thing that occurs to me is that this might be the bodice piece, in the back.  It might be that one side is overlapped over the other in the center, and perhaps closed with a button or snap at the neck edge?  Or even left without a closure, just overlapped for coverage.  The overlap would be at the waist, then the skirt attached or crocheted down from that point.

[magiccrochetfan]

here is the book cover on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cindy-Doll-Kindergarten-crochet-patterns-for-6-3-4-Cindy-dolls-RARE-/130877295512

which outfit is it?   does the pattern state (or can you tell) what part of the garment you are making at this point?  

 

can you post a photo of what you have crocheted so far?

 

did you read everything at the front and back of the book?  and all of this pattern?  

[Bonnie J Jean]

The pattern is from a book called Cindy Doll Kindergarten, and it's the "Dee" doll which I am working on.

[magiccrochetfan]

Hi, welcome to the ville!

 

This is not a common maneuver in crocheting.  It sounds like maybe it is to make pleats....?  Have you read the entire pattern, everything at the beginning and end of it?  there should be an explanation of it somewhere in there.

 

Please tell us the name and location of the pattern.