A broomstick question for you

[jimbo]

Been thinking of making some broomstick "needles" and wondered what length to make.  I've seen them from about a foot long to several feet.  I get the idea of larger diameters for more open work but don't understand the length idea.  Can't you make a large piece like an afghan with a short "needle"?

Future broomstick maker

Jimbo

 

[redrosesdz]

Jimbo,

 

I've done a couple of broomstick projects.  I bought knitting needles, which are 25mm in diameter and 13" long.  The diameter determines the size of each loop.  Length is needed to stack the loops.  It's similar to Tunisian where all the loops are stacked onto the needle and then they are crocheted off of the needle. 

 

My widest project was 216 loops on the broomstick.  It fit nicely on the needle..  Afghans tend to be 200-400 stitches wide, so 13" might be too short.  I'm guessing that 15" would be a really nice needle length for an afghan. 

[jimbo]

Thanks!  That's very helpful.  And since the loops can fill the length , I'd guess there should be a bit of a stop on the heel end.  Whatcha think about something like a cable for whatever part of the length beyond oh say 6".  Would the loops hold ok on the cable?  

[redrosesdz]

A stopper is needed.  A cable would not work.  The loops need to maintain their diameter, until they are ready to be crocheted off of the broomstick.  Cables tend to pull on loops, which is OK when the loop size isn't critical, but it would be extremely difficult to use when every loop needs to be the same size.

[redrosesdz]

I forgot to add that if I was designing a needle for broomstick lace, I'd keep the same diameter to close to the tip and then make the tip rounded.  It's important that the needle and tip be smooth, so the loops don't catch.

[Granny Square]

I was thinking about Jimbo's question when you answered, Redrosedz, and I was trying to figure out how to explain why a cable wouldn't work, or at least wouldn't be optimal.

 

I'm not an expert on Broomstick by any means, (tried it decades ago and didn't like it) and had to look at a video to refresh my memory.  The reason cables work for knitting , is that the business end of the needle determines the size of the stitch, and stitches are interlocked with each other in each direction (unlike crochet--you can't get a 'run' in crochet like in knitting).  Even if 1 'live' stitch got snagged out of shape on the cable, pulling yarn from other live stitches, each stitch on the next row is made one by one with the same sized needle so in the next row one could tug here and there to even out the snag back over the stitches around it.

 

Tunisian starts, in a way, like broomstick in that you pull up an (unlocked) loop on the first pass, then finish/lock on the second pass.  The difference from boomstick is, the Tunisian second pass finishes each stitch individually (with the same size hook that made the loop). Tunisian does work with cabled hooks - like knitting, if a loop got snagged on the cable, it could be tugged back into place in the one-by-one finishing process.  Tunisian stitches are semi-interlocked within each 2-pass 'row'.  

 

Broomstick is also made in 2 passes; loops are pulled over the 'broom' in the first pass, and they aren't locked until the second pass.  One could easily tug on one loop after the first pass and nearly obliterate a loop next to it.  The difference is Broomstick gathers multiple loops together, using a much smaller tool, to lock the gathered loops together.  I imagine it would be difficult to keep Broomstick neat looking if the loops got pulled out of place on a cable.  If you were using a broom-sized hook in the second pass over a cable, you might be able to equalize the loops over the cable like knitting and Tunisian, but that's not the way it works.

[jimbo]

you're all Angels! Thanks so much for your input.  I'd already intuited (new word for me) that a shorter point would be good after watching the struggle and excess motion required to add and withdraw loops over a long tapered knitting needle tip.  

Here's another thought....I saw a patent once for a broomstick needle where there was a groove cut in the needle leading lengthwise along the tip and onto the shaft to provide access for a hook head.  That a good idea?

Also I'm wondering if some kind of holder would be in order.  I see several folks using books or skeins to support the needle off a table top.  Some, I guess hold the needle tween their legs.  I think it gets more complicated the longer the needle gets.

Thanks again for the ideas!  

May I have more?  heh

 

grateful

Jimbo

[Granny Square]

I think the groove is a great idea!

 

Not sure about the broomstick holder or what shape they would take, but that led me to think of something else to exercise your woodworking skills, for those who, you know, do that "K" craft with sticks.

 

edit - not sure if this would be a really niche item nowadays, since it seems cabled needles are pretty prevalent, although you do see them for sale....

[redrosesdz]

I love the grove idea!  It only needs to be near the tip and a little way down (1/2"?) ... just deep enough to slip a K hook under the loops.  One of the toughest parts of broomstick is keeping the loops an even size when you pull them off.  I've seen a broomstick pattern where only 1 loop is crocheted off at a time, but usually the patterns call for the crocheter to pull off 3-5 loops at a time.

 

Could you make a standing block and the end stopper fit together, like a puzzle piece?  Some prefer to hold the broomstick (between their legs or under their arm) and a standing block would get in the way.  Some prefer to have the broomstick freestanding and a standing block would be very helpful.  Just like there are multiple ways to hold a crochet hook, there are multiple ways to hold the other tools, like a broomstick.

[jimbo]

Great ideas!!  I'm off to make one.  Thanks!!

[jimbo]

Late night and hours later we have..... ta daa.....

 

(ignore the Noste... it photo bombed the Broomstick Needle photo)

 

Note the groove.  Think it's enough?  It's about a 1/4 inch deep and maybe 3/8 inch wide, and about 1 1.5 inches along the tip and shaft of the needle.  

 

Again thanks guys for the inspiration!