Help confusing pattern

[Nessybehr]

This pattern is for a pair of pants and it says to work with 8 open work insertions. What does that mean? Aren't there different types. The pattern calls to crochet both legs seperatly and then stitch them together after.

[Nessybehr]

Ok well I am sincerely sorry to tell you the bad news, but that is a pattern that has been copied from a book, probably w/o the copyright holder's permission. If you can't find aything in the pattern about the insertion, it is probably because they forgot to copy that part. Since it calls for Sirdar yarn, it was probably in a book or leaflet published by Sirdar, so you may be able to find an original paper copy on ebay. the openwork insertion is probably the staggered shell stitch pattern that forms the stripes.

 

Sadly there are many illegal copies of patterns being sold on Etsy.

[Granny Square]

Oh, you jiggled my memory.  I used to also sew (before I learned to crochet even) and somewhere very vaguely in the late 1960s womens' sizes changed definition (and have changed since, too).  So if a pattern says size 12 for example without giving measurements, well, good luck.  I think they were different yet again a generation earlier.  Nowadays sizing is even more vanity driven, and less consistent.  I wish women's sizing were like men's, where they use the actual measurement (waist, inseam, chest) for sizes.  No questions then.

 

I found an interesting recent article on the subject

http://time.com/3532014/women-clothing-sizes-history/

 

Sorry to drift off topic..

[magiccrochetfan]

I just looked in a Mccalls and a Woman's Day crochet book that I have, both from late 60s.  There are not any pants, I assume because a) they didn't think there was much demand for pants b) What do you wear under the pants and still be "decent", esp. by the standards of the day as represented by these women's magazines.  (and even today for many people).  Some halters in the Woman's Day Best of Crochet.  

 

I did take a better look at a couple of patterns and was surprised to find that a classic 2 pc dress in the Mccalls Crochet Treasury comes in a couple of plus sizes--yay!  There is less size info than i would expect to find now, bust only (though it does specify both body measurement and finished garment measurement) , no size at all for waist or hip of skirt or lenght of either piece, no schematic.  And it calls for worsted wt w/ G hook which seems like a very dense gauge now.  In general the directions are a lot shorter than most US patterns now, partly because they tell you how to start (and measurement of starting ch or first row, which is helpful) but then say to work to a certain length, making so many increases at such and such intervals.  I actually like that better than the really verbose pattersn we sometimes see now that spell out every stitch and go on for pages.  The more abstract version is easier for me to visualize.  So I guess i have to say there are pros and cons to the older patterns.  They sure did have some cute styles then!  

 

And I agree GrannySquare, hard to use the term vintage for things i remember being the very newest trend!  

[Granny Square]

I think 'vintage' (as in 1970's) patterns are pretty much written in modern terms.  (Hard to think of that as vintage since I was crocheting back then...)  The thing that might be tough is that they may specify yarn that no longer exists, so you might have trouble finding a substitute as well as yardage needed if it only specified skeins.  Also, they may have been less consistent about specifying gauge.  Hook sizes haven't changed since then, in the US anyway.

 

Here are some 'modern' halter top patterns, filtered on adult sizes.  I'm not sure if you can filter the view if you are not a member of Ravelry, but in my view you can choose 'free' patterns or different yarn weights, etc. from a menu on the left side.

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#fit=adult&craft=crochet&view=captioned_thumbs&query=halter&sort=best

 

Good luck, I hope you get your refund.

[magiccrochetfan]

I would ask for a refund if i were you.

 

For finding vintage patterns, i would recommend looking for the original publications. Mccalls is one company that published a ton of books and magazines. I have a couple of theirs from the 60-70s and there are some cute outfits, not sure about pants and haltretops specifically. Yarn companies like Red Heart published booklets. You can find these used copies on ebay and amazon.

 

There is a group on ravelry, i think it is called All Things Vintage. Probably get some ideas there.

 

Drawbacks of vintage patterns are that the directions are usually less detailed and complete than current books and magazines. There will probably be less size info and it is hard to be sure what weight the yarn was. Hook size may even be ambiguous.

 

There are sources for current patterns for pants, the one that comes to mind is http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/gypsy-pants

Several people have made it and there is good support in Everyday Crochet group there.

 

Current halter patterns should be plentiful as well.

[Nessybehr]

anyone have any recommendations on finding vintage crocheted pants and halter tops? 

[Nessybehr]

I'm going to ask for another refund i give up on this pattern

[magiccrochetfan]

Then i don't see how your copy of the pattern can be complete. Just saying to make eight openwork insertions is meaningless.

 

I think it is really unfortunate that etsy tolerates the selling of copied patterns like this.....incomplete ones at that. After all the problems i have seen people post about, i will never consider buying any kind of pattern on etsy.

 

While i am at it, i will mention this too, since pinterest came up. Many supposed patterns on pinterest are photos of a garment, with a stitch diagram that is similar but not the same so you cannot really make the pictured item from the diagram. Also many are pirated, like this Sirdar pattern.

 

Nessy, i am sorry you had this frustrating experience!

[Nessybehr]

N. I'm positive it does not

[magiccrochetfan]

Are you sure the pattern does not tell you what to do? The part where it says to have eight insertions, and to make each leg separately, sounds like general description of the construction. After that, is there a part where it says to chain x number and then goes on with row or round 1,2, 3 etc?

[magiccrochetfan]

On mypicot http://www.mypicot.com/crochet_patterns_openwork_lace.html go to page three. There is a blue swatch on that page, the openwork part of that is similar to your pattern. The number of sts may be different in the shell section, and is definitely diffrent in the solid part.

 

If the pattern is this incomplete, it may be easier to look for a different pattern. I'm sorry!

[Nessybehr]

I've been looking on pinterest for this staggered shell stitch and can't find it. This is so frustrating

[Nessybehr]

I've been looking on pinterest for this staggered shell stitch and can't find it. This is so frustrating

[Amy]

Unfortunately, I have had to temporarily remove the post with the link to the Etsy shop that was posted. The seller has a number of pattern PDFs from many different sources, all from the 1940s to 1970s. She makes no mention in any of her shop information or policies that she has taken steps to verify these patterns are in the public domain or that she has received permission from the copyright holders to sell them.

 

I have sent the Etsy shop owner a private message through Etsy asking her to verify that she is following copyright law. If she is able to confirm that she understands and is following copyright law, I'll return that post to the thread.

As Kathy said, there are unfortunately many people selling illegal versions of patterns. Some people are deliberately breaking copyright law. Others simply incorrectly believe that an out-of-print patterns equals a public domain pattern, which is not the case. Even if a pattern is no longer in print, it is often still under copyright protection. Sometimes the publisher retains the copyright; other times, the contract between designer and publisher means the copyright reverts to the designer and the designer has simply not chosen to republish the pattern yet.

[magiccrochetfan]

Ok well I am sincerely sorry to tell you the bad news, but that is a pattern that has been copied from a book, probably w/o the copyright holder's permission.  If you can't find aything in the pattern about the insertion, it is probably because they forgot to copy that part.  Since it calls for Sirdar yarn, it was probably in a book or leaflet published by Sirdar, so you may be able to find an original paper copy on ebay.  the openwork insertion is probably the staggered shell stitch pattern that forms the stripes.  

 

Sadly there are many illegal copies of patterns being sold on Etsy.  

[Granny Square]

Maybe we can help you find it - what is the name of the pattern, and the name of the designer?

[Nessybehr]

No I bought it on etsy

[magiccrochetfan]

You can type out a short section of the pattern, like the problem row and the row preceding it.  You can't post a photo or scan of the pattern.  

 

Is the pattern listed in the ravelry database?  http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#view=captioned_thumbs&query=etsy&craft=crochet&sort=best&page=1&pc=pants

[Nessybehr]

Idk why I can't find a link for the page etsy

[Nessybehr]

I've asked her no response yet any suggestions I thought I read you can post pictures of parts of the pattern like the the line I described I'll send you the link to the etsy page

[magiccrochetfan]

Be sure you have read the site guidelines, we can't post scans or photos of patterns here as it violates the copyright.  

 

You can post a link to the etsy page.  We can look at the photo there and maybe help you that way.

 

if the pattern only says to do an openwork insertion w/o telling you what that means, I would say that is a very incomplete pattern.  I guess you would need to ask the etsy seller for help in that case.  

[Nessybehr]

I can post a picture of that portion of the pattern but don't know how

[Nessybehr]

It doesn't say I bought the pattern off etsy so its copyrighted so I don't know how that works

[magiccrochetfan]

Welcome to the ville !

 

The pattern should tell you what they mean by "openwork insertion".  Be sure you have read everything at the beginning and end of the pattern, as well as the whole pattern.

 

We can provide better help if you tell us the name and location of the pattern.