fine cotton crochet in the round (tablecloth)

[M.R.]

I'm following a tablecloth pattern called "Enchanted Forest", and have come across a problem I've had before when trying to crochet something round ...

It doesn't stay flat, dammit!    

I'm not someone whose crochet is tight (or taut): and when I started on this pattern - for which I bought the cotton especially! - I made sure to be relaxed about my stitches.

Nothing I can do, it seems (for I have pulled out yards and yards, not once but twice!), will prevent the gradually expanding article from turning into a kind of helmet-shape. And I'm not surprised: there are, as an example, something like 8–9 rows in which NO increasing occurs -

I decided to change all  those ch5s to ch6s and ch7s and so on, and that worked in terms of keeping the shape flat; but of course it completely stuffed all the following instructions, and I couldn't continue.

Can any expert help me, please?: what is the secret to managing to keep round crochet FLAT???

[M.R.]

Granny, thank-you again! and from the heart.

Tell me: is it your understanding that this tablecloth cannot be used on a table wider than the small one shown? - I mean, will the tablecloth ONLY drape as it does in the photo?

I had no understanding of this: my table is about 40" diameter, and I had intended for the covering to merely hang over it by a small amount rather than the deep edging shown ...

[M.R.]

Gotcha! - that'll larn ya to do an edit a fair while after posting, eh? Be more like me! - do 'em on the spot, when you read what you've just posted and suddenly see that your brain has gone somewhere else.

Sighh ...

[Granny Square]

Sorry, I went back and edited it because (1) I thought babbled overmuch about my tablecloth expanding experience, and (2) because I'd subsequently gone off and blown up your doily pic to study it and came back later to add my thoughts of where it might be safely repeated from.

 

I will keep my fingers crossed, please don't go poof!! 

[M.R.]

Now, here's a very strange thing, Granny:

 

 

"Wow, you've made a lot of progress in a short time!

This will be challenging, but hopefully not impossible.  I have done this, once, with this pattern -- http://www.freepatterns.com/detail.html?code=FC00424&cat_id=318

the designer's gauge was much looser than I usually encounter trying to match gauge, I went up to a C aluminum hook (versus the steel 7 called for) and my gauge was still considerably smaller than it should have been.

What I did was find a spot where the pattern 'sprouted' more pineapples.  In my case, you can see there are 2 sets of pineapples that are joined at the shoulder more or less; one ring of these runs under the teapot, the other forms the top of the final edging.  What I did was , as I was about to start the second set, I went back to the row where the first set started, and repeated the pattern from that point.  I may have had to make a few slight modifications in that first row ( it was a while ago ), but as I recall the rest went per pattern.

The pattern I was working was more chain-loopy & not as intertwined as yours, though." 

 

That's your reply as sent to me in email, as I'm 'subscribed' to this thread. And yet, as you see, that is NOT the reply that actually appears above! Most peculiar, eh...?

Anyway ... many thanks, as always, for your valuable input. I shall, in another ten or so rows, attempt to do exactly as you advise. Should I never be heard from again, you may take it that I have become so enraged by my inability to do so that I have vanished in a puff of black rage!

:-)

[Granny Square]

Wow, you've made a lot of progress in a short time!
 
This will be challenging, but hopefully not impossible.  What you need to do is find a spot where the pattern 'sprouts' more pineapples. 

In your case, it looks like the bits that I have circled on the edge are about to sprout new pineapples and are potentially the same as the areas I've circled in the middle of the pattern; that looks like a likely round to track back to for a repeat.

[M.R.]

This post is for the Villager who is Ms Music - the brilliant person who provided errata for the pattern I'm currently crocheting. I have to post it in this thread, as I can't work out how to attach/include photos into a private message. Not, mind you, that there's anything private about our correspondence! - I simply dropped her a line to say thanks, and she responded!

ANYWAY...

I have a really important question for you: as you can see, using no. 10 thread for this delightful pattern means that having now done something like 45 rounds, I'm not even getting close to the edge of my table. And I want the 'tablecloth' (read afghan!) to hang over the edge, of course.

So: can you point me in the direction of how to continue on with this lovely pattern, please? I am unable to work it out for myself: there are simply too many variations/inputs re either 10dc beginnings or 12dc beginnings, let alone where to begin 'em!

Grannysquare is probably more than capable of helping me, too; and I would welcome input from any clever person who can advise me how to simply keep going once I've reached the last row of the pattern.

[Granny Square]

Ah, pretty!  I'm glad you found something that will work

[M.R.]

Crikey! - Granny, you're out of my league! But, she added hastily, your input it very much appreciated, honestly!

I had to give up on this infernal thing: it was either that or go mad. Well, OK - madder ...

Found another thread in which someone was seeking a round tablecloth pattern in 10 thread; one responder provided a link to a pattern that (1) isn't exactly round, and (2) isn't exactly a tablecloth, and when I checked it out I rushed off and bought it!

And here's an even more useful thread regarding it within Crochetville!

As you can see, it ain't for 10 cotton, either: but I'm having a great time with it - and will have an even greater one now that I've found this incredibly helpful erratum post.

Crochetville rocks!

[Granny Square]

That's hard to say.  It needs some amount of overhang to weigh it down with a nice drape, but I don't know how much 'some' is.  You could add beads to the edge (like for old-fashioned milk jug covers).

 

Looking at the photo, it seems (to me) that the span of the table, and the amount draped over one side, is about the same.  If the piece photographed is really 46" per pattern, that means that the table top is 1/3 of 46, or about 15-16 inches across.  Comparing the photo to where 15-15" would be, can you tell if your piece is close to that gauge?  This might help you to decide (very roughly) how big your piece might end up, and whether you think you'd have enough overhang.

 

If you're uncomfortable about deleting rounds and possibly making the piece too small, I'd suggest lengthening chain loops before the point that the cupping starts -- even if it ruffles a little.  Later cupping tendencies may cancel out the ruffling.   

 

Too late for your project, but something to think about 'next time' - I've been able to fix minor issues by using an adjustable ring instead of, chain x for the center.  I can pull the thread tight or loose - an easy way to make a slight adjustment to the diameter to help a piece lay flat.

[Granny Square]

I find doing things to affect the diameter (adding or subtracting a round of the same stitch, substituting shorter or taller stitches) is often easier to do than adding or subtracting stitches in a lace pattern to change the circumference.

 

I think you could eliminate 2 rows of the very gappy chain loops approaching the nearly solid band close to the edge of the table; also maybe delete one of the rounds of mostly chain loops after the second set of triangle shapes.  Possibly, you could make the triangles in shorter stitches, but you'd have to do that for both sets I think. 

 

ps, aw shucks Kathy, it's just that I've run into these problems before ... I mostly learned to crochet using antique doily books, so I had to be a problem solver....

[magiccrochetfan]

Yeah, it was a lot of steps from the freepatterns page to the help form.  I clicked advertising on the bottom of the pattern page, which brought up the page i linked.  I knew they were part of Annies, which i think generally has pretty good customer service, altho I'm not sure they offer much for the free patterns, which are mostly older patterns from magazines i think.  

 

hope you do get some kind of response.  

 

Grannysquare is amazing on the geometry of crochet

[M.R.]

Kathy, I'm unsure as to your source re Annie's (see attachment); but I've written to 'em anyway! Thank-you indeed for this. 

The only craft store within cooee (i.e., walkable distance or accessible by public tranport) doesn't have anything like these amazing things. I shall put my mind to the matter of strong cardboard!  :-)

Granny, we are of one mind (now) on this: but mine is a bit 'mazed by the thought of decreasing. I'm going to have to ponder that one very deeply.   :-|

[Granny Square]

Cupping = circumf. is too short, diameter too long.  I assume by 'helmet' you mean cup shaped.  So you need to add to the circumf. or decrease the diameter, or both.

 

I have never had success blocking out cupping.  Ruffling you can stretch out usually, but for cupping you need to ... scrunch out.

 

Ironically you might try decreasing the chain loops -- while increasing them will add to your circumference , by their loopy nature they will also add to the diameter, which is what you DON'T need. 

[magiccrochetfan]

I know what you mean about the infrastructure required for blocking large things.  I have a very old macrame board that  is great for blocking snowflakes and not-too-big doilies.  Don't really have a way to pin out bigger things.  i know people have used the foam play mats like this http://www.planetjune.com/blog/warning-foam-blocking-mat-colour-transfer/ blog entry about how the color can transfer---good to know!  I don't have any of these myself but have seen them, without the removable letters, at discount store for about $15-19 for a pack of i think four squares.  A piece of corrugated cardboard might work too, or foamcore from a craft store.  Just throwing out ideas here :-)

 

I guess the freepatterns site does have a contact us thing at the very bottom, but it seems to be only for problems with the site itself, not with patterns.  But it is part of the Annie's company now, and from the tablecloth page i found this page http://www.annies-publishing.com/service/

where you can access a Pattern Services form to ask for help.  it might be worth a try.  

[M.R.]

I simply don't have the ... the infrastructure to block like that, Kathy. Living on the age pension, I can't afford to buy a large flat thing on which to lay the crochet that will take pins.

The problem with increasing the chain spaces is that one must, thereafter, keep increasing everything else. Believe me, it doesn't work. Crocheting the chains loosely is only a kind of temporary delay in reaching the same point where the helmeting begins.

And Michele, I agree with that thought: but the fact is that I don't even get to the edge of the table before what I'm making has begun to 'mound': that area of 'V's before the chain loops that reach the edge is where all the 5ch spaces are.

The site from which I downloaded the pattern provides no way whatsoever of making contact. This is what I should have noted before beginning, I think; and is certainly something I will be looking for in future. If you can't reach the site managers, don't use the product!

Thank-you, ladies, for your willing suggestions.

[RoseRed]

Looking at the picture - where the table cloth goes over the edge of the table - it doesn't ruffle.  I don't think this pattern will lay flat once it's finished.

[magiccrochetfan]

I would try to block it when you get to the part where it starts to become a helmet.  Soak it, squeeze out the excess water, lay it out flat, pull it into the shape it needs to be and pin it there using rustfree pins.  

 

Also if you changed the number of chains in a loop, but kept the same number of loops it seems you should be able to continue with the pattern, but I may be wrong about that.  What about doing the "correct" number of chains but making each chain very loosely?  that way you wouldn't throw off the stitch count.

 

Does the pattern give any kind of gauge?  

 

It's possible this is just a bad pattern that won't work for a lot of people, rather than anything you are doing wrong.