Copyright questions

[Knitwit47]

I have a question...not sure it belongs here...but...I'm not clear on the copyrights..and it does seem to follow along with this discussion ...

I've seen many patterns that have copyrights that state- you can make and give products away- sell products, share pattern, as long as you dont's "sell" the pattern....

then some that just say the copyright info... so is it safe to say..if the pattern doesnt state that you can share..that the copyright protects from all except making the article and giving it as a gift?

Then there are sites like- Annies Attic where a new "free" pattern appears everyday, but we cant copy and give it...Im soooo confused LOL

 

Mary

[PoetryinYarn]

you just have to assume worst case and contact the copyright holder to find out otherwise... i called annie's attic and they said i can sell items made from their patterns.

[Real Deal]

Whether you buy a pattern or it's put up for free, you can make the item for yourself. You can also make the item as a gift for someone also. Say you made a certain afghan for yourself, then your mother saw it and loved it. You are allowed to make it for her as a gift. Perhaps you decided to make it for her in different colors and surprise her for her birthday. That's perfectly OK.

 

You can make this same afghan in 6 different colors and give them to 6 different friends. But you can't give or sell them the pattern unless the person who holds the copyright says it's OK. You also can't sell them the afghans unless the person who holds the copyright says it's OK.

 

As you have already seen, some patterns do state on them that you may make the item for personal use, gifts or charity, but you may not sell the items. You may not give or sell the pattern itself at all.

 

Other patterns state you may make all you wish and sell the items if you wish, but do not give or sell the pattern. Give them credit for the pattern when you make it.

 

In general, the far majority of patterns state you cannot sell the item, and you cannot sell or give away the pattern.

 

If you have any doubts at all about a particular pattern, you contact the person or company that holds the copyright.

[crazycrochet]

Then a whole of people are violating the copyrgiht law at arts and crafts shows. If they are selling their products without permission of the person who wrote the pattern they are in violation of the copyright law, correct?

[Amy]

Then a whole of people are violating the copyrgiht law at arts and crafts shows. If they are selling their products without permission of the person who wrote the pattern they are in violation of the copyright law, correct?

 

In many cases, yes, there are plenty of people at arts and craft show who are violating copyright and/or trademark laws.

 

Now, things get a little sticky because there are some patterns (notably those for clothing) that there is quite a gray area on. For example, I spoke with a representative at the US Copyright Office who said that, due to a peculiarity in the way copyright law is written, clothing items are not given "derivative work" protection under copyright law, although things like doilies are. (The pattern itself is still protected, and copies of the pattern may not be distributed without permission of the copyright holder.) But with clothing, items made from the pattern may be sold, even if the designer doesn't want them to be. I've talked with some attorney who agree with this interpretation.

 

Of course, I've also had intellectual property attorneys tell me that they DO consider clothing patterns to have "derivative work" protection. These attorneys would be willing to take a case to court for their designer client if they so wished, to have things fought out there.

 

So, it's all up to the individual person whether or not they wish to take the risk of being sued by selling items made from a pattern without permission. Sure, in certain cases, you might end up winning in the end, but do you want to risk tying up your money and time fighting something out in court?

 

Now, partly because of all these gray areas that even the lawyers can't agree on and partly because we think it is important to respect the wishes of the crochet designer regarding their patterns (so they'll continue to make more and more patterns for us), Crochetville's forum guidelines are a bit different from copyright law.

 

Our guidelines state that members are only allowed to discuss selling items they've made from particular patterns if those patterns (or the website or a communication from the copyright holder) specifically give permission for those items to be sold. Some members have links in their signatures to sites where they are selling crocheted items. We can only allow these links if all items being sold are from patterns that give permission for items to be sold. If we are made aware that someone is selling items made from patterns for which the designer doesn't wish items to be sold, then we have to remove the signature link.

 

Hope that helps explain things! Let me know if there are any questions.

[SaxDragon]

I remember similar copyright and trademark issues with liecensed images. Graphed afghans featuring disney characters, for instance. Some sites removed them, others just renamed them (from 'The Little Mermaid' to just 'Mermaid Girl', and whether that is still a violation). A few sites have some psuedo legal statement trying to protect themselves and place any legal responsibility for violations on the contributing 'designer' of a graphed image. Similar discussions are happening in embroidery (machine and hand) and quilting. That doesn't even begin to cover the issue of whether or not one can sell an item made from one of these questionable graphed patterns ...

 

Sewing and quilting groups have an additional problem besides patterns (like whether or not you can sell vests made from a paper pattern) - fabrics with liecensed images (the fabric already has the images on it, legally et al), but can you sell an item made with that fabric. Some groups say yes, some say no. The yes side claims you buy such fabric and disney knows you're going to make stuff, otherwise why liecense the image to a fabric company, therefore they can sell it - the no side agrees except they still say the issue is whether or not you can sell the items made. There was even issues over differences between selling clothing or craft items, but by then reading it all had given me a headache ... :-)

 

Some groups (most recently a knitting one) have been discussing what is actually protected under copyright for a basic kind of sweater. Just the written instructions? That and the chioce of yarn/needles used? The sweater itself after it's made (and if it doesn't have any special details, who owns the basic two sleeves and a round neck basic sweater?). What about those that do have special details like a swirl of openwork that makes the designer identifiable? I gave up there, too - let them argue it out to a definate conclusion and I'll go back next year and read the last posts LOL

 

I decided not to read the craft show debate ...

 

I have found that the people who are most likely in violation of a copyright (and know it) dangle that 'change 10% of it and make it yours' myth, and even when it's pointed out to them as still being a violation, they won't accept that. A few of them 'justify' selling their stuff with the 'disney's a big company and it's not going to bankrupt them if a few patterns/items get sold without them getting any money out of it'.

 

Maybe we need to have the various craft associations lobby for a clear and absolute legal answer out of the government - or are they trying to avoid that because they might not like the result? Are the grey areas of the law worth keeping? How many people (crafters and buyers) would loose out if those grey areas went away?

[Real Deal]

All of us have to be reasonable about what is actually protectable by copyright. Yes, technically, as soon as I have done a pattern, it is under copyright, but realistically anything simple enough that any 1,000 or 10,000 people were doing the same thing at the same time, is not a realistic copyright.

 

The whole point of copyright is to protect unique work, actual designing. Any of us who crochet can think up something like a baby blanket that is: ch for 30", do 5 rows sc, 1 row dc, rep for 36".

 

Do more rows of sc. Do more rows of dc. Change colors. Add a shell border. It doesn't matter. It's cute, but it's not really designing.

 

I've made a lot of baby blankets and afghans without patterns. I make up my own, but they're nothing hundreds of you couldn't think up also. I suppose technically they are under copyright, but I find that laughable. If I had to go after everyone who made ones like mine, I'd never get any crochet done.

 

If I put a lot of time and work into something intricate, that would be different. I've seen doily designs that just boggle the mind. Oh yes, I'd want that under copyright.