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birdlady1

Stealing Patterns Posted on Crochetville

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Yah know what, I am here because of the Fluffy Pink Shrug pattern. how many others are here for the same reason - a pattern drew them and the Ville snared 'em :wlol

 

I agree with darski. Patterns brought me here. I lurked well over a year because I wasn't sure I would be comfortable joining. I finally joined because of the patterns so many generously posted here, especially darski's doll clothes. I wanted the chance to tell her how wonderful I thought they were.

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One solution to the problem might be: rather than post the pattern make someone either pm or e-mail you to get it. (Like the Daisy Charity Square)That way you know who has your pattern if it ends up e-bay or other places it might make it easier to track down the person. That way you can still post your pictures and attract other members without some unknown stealing your patterns that you guys have worked so hard on.

 

Just a thought

 

Gina

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I haven't designed anything yet. I've barely started making stuff. However, if I planned on profiting from a pattern, I'm not sure I'd post it unless I accepted the fact that it could and probably would be pirated (I guess I'm assuming it would be worth pirating). If I didn't plan on selling it myself, I don't think I'd really worry too much about someone else selling it. It would be nice of them to ask if they could or give credit or something but it's so hard to put anything on the internet or pretty much anywhere without somebody swiping it.

 

If something appears on the screen, it can be swiped. If nothing else, if it's worth swiping, you can write down the pattern, use a different style of abbrevating, make your own example, take your own picture then pass it off as your own. It's pretty wild how people on here make little modifications and change the look just a bit to make it their own, so to speak. Who's to say which came first?

 

I'd hate to miss out on some of the really cool patterns that are divulged here but if someone really wants to protect something, don't post it publicly. But that just leads to the next level of thief. They can spend $3 to buy a pattern then what keeps them from doing the exact same to it as they would a free pattern. There are people out there who are out to make money off other people's hard work and creativity. Unless you have a friend like Amy who has the backing of a company, most of us don't have the resources to go after anyone. If they don't back down from just a threat, is it worth a lawsuit to get your property back?

 

I'd say just hang out in here and just buy from member's etsy or ebay shops or other "valid" vendors. Otherwise, who knows where it came from?

 

Sorry about the downer of a post but I really don't see any way to fight it.

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I can tell you from personal experience that requiring people to email you for a pattern is time consuming. I needed to do that with the Survivor's Shawl and the Prayer Cloth pattern because I didn't have anywhere to host them when I first put them up. The 1st couple days they were available were insane.

 

I'm still waiting to hear from Amy about hosting pdf charity patterns.

 

The thing is - this is just the way people are. We can be vigilent and watch out for each other but we can't change human nature or the people that 'vulture' others.

 

I'm not going to stop designing even if some of my free patterns get stolen and I'm sure that eventually it'll happen. - I love it to much. Part of designing, for me at least, is sharing. These are the risks we take when we put our work out there.

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I am also thankful for those who are talented enough to design items (I crochet up a storm but not design by any means) and I would hate to see them stop sharing their love of designing because there are thoughtless people in the world.

 

 

I LOVE all the generous people here who so willingly share their patterns. I cannot fathom designing an item, but I'm glad there are those of you who do and share them with me!

 

Thank you!

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I'm not sure what purpose it would serve to have a designer pick and choose who to send the pattern to and who not to. That could end up causing a bunch of hurt feelings and people feeling left out and excluded. Ellen, can you explain a little more about how you envisioned something like this working? Right now, I'm not seeing enough benefit to posting patterns this way to justify the extra amount of work that would be heaped on the designer by having to send patterns out manually.

 

I wasn't suggesting that a designer pick and choose who to send the pattern to. I'm assuming the designer would honor all requests.

 

Even if there are 100+ requests, I think it would be simple to email the pattern as an attachment when the designer had time within a reasonable period. The C'ville post initially offering the pattern could reflect the "lack of urgency" in emailing, i.e., stating the pattern will be mailed within a week to 10 days. That takes the stress off the designer.

 

The designer would then have a record of people requesting the pattern. If the pattern suddenly showed up on eBay or elsewhere, the designer might not know who was to blame but it would be a start. However, I'm guessing that someone who had to go through the trouble of contacting the designer may not risk the chance of being identified if they planned to "bootleg" it.

 

Krystal16 would be a good one to get involved in this conversation (as suggested in this thread) as she has made her daisy motif pattern available through email requests.

 

Ellen

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You get the pattern in exchange for making and sending her a square for her charity ghans.

 

Do you remember the amount of people complaining when Maggie Weldon had her huge sale and people had to wait for their orders? It's the internet - who wants to wait a week and a half?

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Maggie's sale was little different. People forked out money for hard copy items and they expected fast shipment. People shouldn't be making demands if the item in question is gratis. Yes, I know people will still complain, but ....

 

Nor am I suggesting that my ideas be MANDATORY. If a designer wants to post the pattern for all to view and download, that's his/her choice. But they may be facing the risk of theft as poor Darski just experienced. Handling individual requests may prevent some of that ... with the key words being "some of that."

 

There's no foolproof answer to this mess.

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I wasn't suggesting that a designer pick and choose who to send the pattern to. I'm assuming the designer would honor all requests.

 

Even if there are 100+ requests, I think it would be simple to email the pattern as an attachment when the designer had time within a reasonable period. The C'ville post initially offering the pattern could reflect the "lack of urgency" in emailing, i.e., stating the pattern will be mailed within a week to 10 days. That takes the stress off the designer.

 

Well, that makes more sense to send the pattern to all who ask for it. :) If any designer wants to go to this time and effort, I don't suppose it's a problem. But I doubt very many really want all that aggravation!

 

However, I can guarantee everybody that people will NOT be happy waiting a "reasonable" period for someone to email a pattern. (Not to mention, everybody had a different defintion of reasonable. :)) In these days of the internet, people expect instantaneous gratification. I really wouldn't want to get in the situation of having to field a bunch of angry emails from people who wondered why their pattern didn't arrive in 3 days, 2 days, 1 day, or even 2 hours!

 

I think the best thing to do is just to continue with our pattern sections as it is. Everybody who posts patterns anywhere online, whether for free or for sale, just has to realize that they are then at risk for that pattern being used/sold without permission. The same applies to patterns from magazines/books/leaflets/free pattern sheets in the stores. It's just that it's slightly easier to misuse things that are available online. But anybody with a scanner can misuse any printed pattern.

 

The best way to handle this is for all of us to band together to help look out for each other's interests. If you see a pattern for sale somewhere and you know or think it may belong to someone else. (If you're not 110% sure, just be sure that you're asking for confirmation and not accusing someone of doing something illegal, just to protect Crochetville and yourself against charges of libel.) You can also PM a member here if you see their pattern being apparently used without permission, as well as PMing me to alert me to the situation. Like Darski, many designers are successful fairly quickly at getting someone to stop violating their copyright. When things don't go so well initially, I'm always available to be called in to help.

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Maggie's sale was little different. People forked out money for hard copy items and they expected fast shipment. People shouldn't be making demands if the item in question is gratis. Yes, I know people will still complain, but ....

 

Nor am I suggesting that my ideas be MANDATORY. If a designer wants to post the pattern for all to view and download, that's his/her choice. But they may be facing the risk of theft as poor Darski just experienced. Handling individual requests may prevent some of that ... with the key words being "some of that."

There's no foolproof answer to this mess.

 

Ellen, that's it in a nutshell! (What I highlighted in bold.) Theft is going to happen no matter what. But if we look out for each other, and do our best to help each other, and educate all forum newbies and visitors that copyright infringement isn't accepted here, then we might start spreading education around the internet and slowly reducing the amount of pattern theft that occurs.

 

Publishing a pattern in any format or medium exposes you to the risk that it will be used inappropriate. Just look at how many websites (especially lots outside the US where they don't enforce US copyright laws) allow uploading of scanned images of published patterns from books/magazines/etc.

 

But we can be vigilant and do our best to reduce the amount of theft that occurs!

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I'm still waiting to hear from Amy about hosting pdf charity patterns.

 

Yes, we should be able to host pdfs of patterns here at the 'Ville. We can experiment with a few and see how it changes our bandwidth consumption (which then affects costs of maintaining this site).

 

Go ahead and email me anything you'd like us to host here, and Donna and I will see what we can do!

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One other thought, Amy, then I'm off to bed ..... When a new member signs up, maybe there should be an additional "guideline" reminding him/her that you enforce copyright protection laws yada yada. (Never mind....didn't you just write that???:P )

 

I think it's past your bedtime too, Amy! Nighty night.

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One other thought, Amy, then I'm off to bed ..... When a new member signs up, maybe there should be an additional "guideline" reminding him/her that you enforce copyright protection laws yada yada. (Never mind....didn't you just write that???:P )

 

I think it's past your bedtime too, Amy! Nighty night.

 

Just about bedtime! I'm watching The Return of the King (The Lord of the Rings) on DVD right now.

 

I started this sometime in the past year, so well after you became a forum member, Ellen, so you'd have no idea I was doing this. :) Every new member receives a special welcome message from me that does several things: 1) hopefully makes them feel welcomed to the forum, 2) requests that they read our forum guidelines post (which includes all the copyright information) if they haven't done so yet, 3) lets them know we don't tolerate spammers, and 4) lets them know how to report any problem posts so Donna or I can take care of them.

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I wasn't suggesting that a designer pick and choose who to send the pattern to. I'm assuming the designer would honor all requests.

 

Even if there are 100+ requests, I think it would be simple to email the pattern as an attachment when the designer had time within a reasonable period. The C'ville post initially offering the pattern could reflect the "lack of urgency" in emailing, i.e., stating the pattern will be mailed within a week to 10 days. That takes the stress off the designer.

 

The designer would then have a record of people requesting the pattern. If the pattern suddenly showed up on eBay or elsewhere, the designer might not know who was to blame but it would be a start. However, I'm guessing that someone who had to go through the trouble of contacting the designer may not risk the chance of being identified if they planned to "bootleg" it.

 

I haven't put a lot of patterns online, because I just haven't found the way I want to distribute them yet. But from just one pattern I do have I get an average of about 75 hits A DAY (some days up to 150, and I can't remember less than 50).

 

I realize not every person who checks out the pattern would take the time to email it. Heck, when I'm at CPC I save the pdfs and Lions Brand links to last to possibly save hassle. :hook

 

But, still, that's a lot of potential emails. :eek

 

And in the event my pattern turned up on ebay or the like, I really don't think it would help in the least in "going after them". In the event I was going to pursue legal action, I believe that part of what my lawyer would be doing would be getting that subpoena Amy mentioned that was necessary for Ebay (and C-ville, and pretty much any site), which I would think they could do (at considerable cost to me, of course) with the fact that copyright infringement is against the law.

 

There are a lot of alternatives to posting a pattern in the body of a post at Crochetville for distributing a free pattern, but I am really glad of all the people that do because I'm another that found Crochetville that way! :manyheart

 

Anyway, that's just my :2c :2c (I think I have to pay double for rambling so much :lol ).

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To much to think about.

So here is another thought. lol

The other day I bought a pattern from Ebay. It was VERY late at night (almost morning), I'm sure he wasn't awake. Within 5 min of paying the person I got an email with a link to my pattern. Wow quick....

So here is the question, for the person who suggested emailing patterns, couldn't the same thing be used with that?

Like a member sees a pattern they want and they send a request for the pattern to some place and an automaded email sends them the pattern or to the place/link where the pattern is?

The patterns would still be free, but to get these patterns they have to give the Ville' alot more checkable info.

I'm not too computer savey so I don't even know how it works.......:think

Just a thought..:D

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All of these suggestions really wouldn't stop someone who wanted to get a pattern. If someone wanted, they could just make up a whole on-line persona with one of the billions of free e-mail accounts out there (that also don't verify your information), and register here. I really believe that for every one person who steals a pattern, there are just so many more who don't and who benefit from the free patterns and camaraderie of the site.

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I as a designer who has several free patterns which I host on my website, want to state that there is no way I would want to try and deal with emailing out my patterns upon request. I have already given out almost 900 of my snood patterns this month, The super simple shawl is right behind it. My beaded ornament is close to 800 and the list goes on. The smallest number sent out this month on a pattern is 484. My life would be just sending emails at that rate. People love free. Not to thrilled about paying, but they do love free.

When I did the for Crochetville only free pattern I was kept hopping for sometime sending out patterns. It was almost a relief when the post finally got buried. Not that I minded sharing the pattern, but It does take time to answer everyones emails and attach the pattern.

So I don't see where having people request the designer to send out the patterns is a viable solution. We would never have time to design anything else.

I don't know the solution. I wish I did. I am sorry Darski had this happen to her. For some people making money is the most important thing. It's a shame they make designers afraid to share with others. I know I am getting more leary all the time.

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Personally, I intend to continue to post my free patterns as I have done so far. I post at my Y group and the next day, I post here. I know going in that theft may happen. (that doesn't excuse it just acknowledges it)

 

It did happen and the entire community here :manyheart helped me to deal with that. A member notified me and others helped me to deal with the seller when I could not get into ebay. I think the Ville has done well by me in allowing me to post my patterns (the inspiration to create the patterns was born here at the Ville as well :yes ) and helping me in this situation. I could not ask for more.

 

a great big

:ghug all round

 

Hard cases tend to make bad law generally speaking.

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It is risky, weather you post a pattern here or on your blog or anywhere else online. Blog patterns are often listed in signatures even if the pattern isn't here. I'm just glad that there are designers that still want to offer patterns free. They share their talents with us & I'm so grateful to them for that.

 

That said, it is pretty easy if you're dishonest to get a pattern to exploit. Like mentioned even a $3 pattern you paid for can be distributed to their friends, email group or placed on ebay. But I think most people are honest.

 

So I think that Crochetville is a great place to share a pattern.:hook

 

As a sidenote; referring to right clicking to open windows, patterns etc...did you know that you can click the scroll wheel on your mouse while over a link & it auto opens in a new window/tab? I rarely use right click but then again, I wouldn't want to get an annoying pop up if I ever did.

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I LOVE all the generous people here who so willingly share their patterns. I cannot fathom designing an item, but I'm glad there are those of you who do and share them with me!

 

Thank you!

 

About sharing patterns, that's EXACTLY what I wanted to say about this! I know there are FAR MORE wonderful and honest people here, than there are pattern grubbing gremlins.:lol

It never occured to me to troll eBay to see if the pattern I posted here awhile back has been appropriated for profit:( . Guess I will check......

 

Love you all:hug

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