Another ebay question

[lunchbox]

Is it legal to purchase magazines and cut the patterns out and sell them?

 

How does someone come to own the copyright on patterns that were producted in the 40s and 50s? What is the deal with the expiration of the copyright?

[birdlady1]

This may answer your question. It's copied and pasted from the Annie's Attic message boards (soon to be a part of history:( ):

 

EDITED TO DELETE COPYRIGHTED INFO FROM ANNIE'S ATTIC SITE

 

 

[Shell]

i believe to "own" copyright of something you can a) still be living or b) be a direct descendant or closely related or some such matter. copyright seems soooo complicated! but as a general rule, nothing is in the public domain until 70yrs after it last went out of publication

[rsisland]

those kinds of auctions drive me nuts!

[Amy]

You can find answers to copyright questions like this by visiting the US Copyright Office website.

 

Birdlady1, I appreciate that you were trying to be helpful, but it's also a copyright violation to copy and paste the copyrighted text from another site here on our forum. (So I had to delete the verbage.)

 

If you like, you are very welcome to post a link to the text that you originally pasted into your message.

[lunchbox]

I just want to avoid giving anyone who is doing something illegal (or even unethical) my business.

[angelfire]

I have purchased several patterns taken out of magazines from sellers on E-Bay. I think that as long as it is an original...that people can do it..not a copy though.

[yarnart]

Ebay is getting pretty good at stopping fraudulent ads...if they sell them pretty regularly and have good feedback, go for it.

[birdlady1]

You can find answers to copyright questions like this by visiting the US Copyright Office website.

 

Birdlady1, I appreciate that you were trying to be helpful, but it's also a copyright violation to copy and paste the copyrighted text from another site here on our forum. (So I had to delete the verbage.)

 

If you like, you are very welcome to post a link to the text that you originally pasted into your message.

 

It's humorously ironic that I violated copyright laws by trying to explain them. Sheesh.....

[Amy]

Birdlady1, I'm glad you saw the humor in that situation!

[birdlady1]

Birdlady1, I'm glad you saw the humor in that situation!

 

Yes I did. Duhhhhhh.

[kahud48]

I buy and retail books from:

Annie's Attic, American School of Needlework, House of White Birches and The Needle Craft Shop.

The Publishing Company that I buy from said:

 

1. You can not show any pattern except the front cover and back cover of the book

2. You can not cut out any individual patterns from within any book or magazine and sell them seperate. The mags and books must be sold complete.

 

And they are cracking down on the sellers at ebay big time concerning this cutting out of patterns and selling them seperate from the book or mag.

[birdlady1]

I buy and retail books from:

Annie's Attic, American School of Needlework, House of White Birches and The Needle Craft Shop.

The Publishing Company that I buy from said:

 

1. You can not show any pattern except the front cover and back cover of the book

2. You can not cut out any individual patterns from within any book or magazine and sell them seperate. They mags and books must be sold complete.

 

And they are cracking down on the sellers at ebay big time concerning this cutting out of patterns and selling them seperate from the book or mag.

 

Hmmmm interesting. Is that the publishing house's personal regulations on copyright? It seems to contradict what I've been reading about auctioning or selling pages from within a book/magazine. Maybe the other publishers just don't have the time or finances to pursue these issues.

[kahud48]

I just called the publisher and ask her after reading your post just now.

She said that it is an issue of copyright infrigement. You do not seperate this published unit into seperate parts. It is sold as a whole unit, complete.

 

This is accross the board as far as they know with all publishers of anyones designs that they contract with to sell.

She is saying that it is illegal to cut out and sell like some are doing on ebay.

 

The Publisher that I deal with said that they are as of right now

in a few lawsuits with ebay sellers that have being doing this.

 

It is a big problem that they deal with on ebay and that ebay is working with them now to get it stopped.

[Amy]

I had a feeling that there was probably some stipulation about selling magazines and books in their original, whole condition. I'm not about to go digging through all the copyright law to find their basis for this determination, but I would imagine they could at the very least use the "derivative works" terminology to prevent it.

 

Ripping one pattern out would turn that one pattern into a "derivative work" since it is not the original in its entirety. Therefore, the original copyright holder can refuse to grant permission for their book or magazine to be sold in part.

 

At least that makes sense to me. If Annie's Attic is actively involved in pursuing legal action in relation to this sort of thing, then I'm more than willing to accept their position on this (since they wouldn't be taking legal action that wasn't supported by their legal team).

[lee_ann]

i got the october issue of crochet world today in the mail, ive never seen it before, but was reading the Crochet Potpourri section, for those of you unfamiliar with it, thats where people ask for patterns and such.

 

now in the section that gives you the info of where to send letters of inquiry it says "NOTE: It is legal to exchange or sell the following copyrighted material: magazines, books and pattern books and/or actual pages from those publications. However it is illegal to exchange or sell photocopies, Internet files, digital scans for any other reproductions of copyrighted material. (Crochet World October 2006 pg 22)"

 

I hope i didn't infringe on copyrights since i named the source where i got my information and didn't claim it as my own. (at least, that's what i was taught in my english/communication classes lol)

 

anyway, my point is, this seems to be in condradiction to the "derivitave work" that Amy mentioned.

 

just thought i'd mention it since the ideas are indeed conflicting and for the fact that this magazine may be encouraging copyright violations.

 

Lee Ann

[nightowl]

Hmm, well, I'm not a lawyer and I think the courts would have to rule on this to get a definitive answer. But, having said that. . .

 

I don't think taking one pattern from a book and selling it alone makes it a "derivative work". As I understand it, a derivative work is a new version of something based on the original, such as a translation or adaptation, a film of a book, a T-shirt with a reproduction of artwork or perhaps a crocheted version of a knitting pattern. The US Copyright Office definition here says it's any form in which a work has been "recast, transformed or adapted".

 

I think, notwithstanding what the publisher told kahud48, that it may not be a copyright issue at all, but a contractual or licensing one. I have quite a few books that state on the back that they may only be sold or lent in their original covers.

 

Again, it's only my 2 pence-worth and of course I could be wrong. If there are truly lawsuits in the offing it will be very interesting to see the outcome.

 

Smiles,