E-bay listing that I don't "get"

[MomToLabs]

How is it that someone can post this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PATTERN-FOR-CROCHET-JUMPER-in-webbed-grape-pattern_W0QQitemZ150025976689QQihZ005QQcategoryZ11798QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

in E-bay? The seller says specifically that the buyer will get a photocopied pattern, and even states what book it's from!

 

I reported this to the E-bay folks, but nothing has changed, thus far. I have this same pattern in a book and I'm confused as to how someone can sell photocopies of it...

 

Susan

 

P.S. I'm not looking for legal opinions or copyright law (off-limits here, anyway) but I'm just confused by this and wonder if I'm alone in that!

[princsstrish]

Maybe cuz it's from Australia???

[Natasha]

But the seller is offering it to U.S. buyers as well, which seems it would be in violation to do that due to our laws.

 

Give ebay a little while to act on it.

[MomToLabs]

I guess I shouldn't expect an immediate response -- you're right, Natasha. It might take E-bay a little while to act on it.

[Shellybrook]

My experience has been that E-bay acts VERY quickly with no warning to the the seller of a violation. I've had an item pulled because it was noted as "used" but didn't say "Cleaned in accordance with E-bay standards"...I then had to investigate to find out WHY the item was pulled...that being said...perhaps its not a copyright issue in the originating country? I don't know...I don't get it either.

[Mermaiden]

Maybe they need more reports.

 

Hey, Ebay users: "Report this item " at the bottom of the page.

[Rapvnzle]

Wow..thats obvious! I reported it!

[Krystal16]

I have had a very difficult time with Ebay lately - I had such a problem with one of the sellers that I contacted them - and their response was "Ebay doesn't get involved in seller/buyer interactions. You need to work this out with the seller." It all happened with a combined auction, which Ebay has no real rules for (regarding shipping) so I got so fed up I refused to pay, got unpaying strikes against me and will likely never buy there again. This was the 2nd time it happened with 2 different sellers....

[birdlady1]

I have had a very difficult time with Ebay lately - I had such a problem with one of the sellers that I contacted them - and their response was "Ebay doesn't get involved in seller/buyer interactions. You need to work this out with the seller." It all happened with a combined auction, which Ebay has no real rules for (regarding shipping) so I got so fed up I refused to pay, got unpaying strikes against me and will likely never buy there again. This was the 2nd time it happened with 2 different sellers....

 

I'm sorry to read you've had problems with eBay. I've been an active buyer and seller since 1999 and have had few problems. There actually *is* a system where you can report a problem but, it does go back and forth between the seller and buyer only. For a "fee," you can carry it further. eBay is cracking down on shipping problems but it's going to take awhile. This morning, I reported someone who wanted to sell a four-page crochet booklet for $1 but wanted $15 to ship it.

 

You really need to know ahead of time what shipping costs will be if they're not listed in the auction and if they don't have the "shipping calculator" (but they can scam people that way too!) Most sellers combine auctions with discounted shipping and it's reasonable. Bottom line, though, if you don't want to pay the shipping charges, simply don't bid....no matter how much you want the item.

 

I also keep away from sellers who have zero or just a few feedbacks, especially if they're outside of the United States. eBay is having some serious problems with zero feedback bidders as well right now. Many sellers' auctions are not being consumated because the winner is someone with zero feedback and they don't follow through with payment.

 

Still, I think I would literally die if I didn't have eBay in my life. Call me weird .

[Samio]

I have reported this to Ebay as well as the seller herself and made her aware that she is breaching Ebay policy. This really annoys me big time.

 

princsstrish - Unfortunately just because she is in Australia does not mean anything, as I have reported her to Ebay Australia, so she should get banned big time

[Krystal16]

Birdlady - it was a combined auction - and I asked ahead of time if she would "combine" shipping....well, her idea of combine and mine was WAY different. Her idea was to take a few bucks off shipping (which wound up doubling the cost of the auction). I tried the "back and forth" but once an auction is closed, if the seller has no interest in negotiating, it's the buyer that is scr**ed. Ebay had NO interest in working for me, even when I pointed out their shipping policy. They specifically said they have NO responsibility to the buyer or the seller - they are only a place for buyers and sellers to transact, they do not wish to intervene in any way, even to enforce their own shipping policy. Over an over again I heard the same "canned" response. I got nowhere, so I gave up. Rather than pay a ridiculous shipping fee, I would rather leave Ebay altogether. If Ebay actually cared about their buyers and sellers, they would take more action. I do not wish to transact anymore in a place where I know I've got no recourse if someone tries to gouge me again.

[Appliejuice]

It looks like this has been pulled from eBay. I guess reporting it worked.

[Samio]

She has now cancelled the auction as she truly was not aware of the problem, She could not find any mention of copyright on the magazine. She was genuinely sorry, if she upset anyone

[Mermaiden]

You never really know if a person is just claiming they didn't know that what they're doing is breaking the rules, or if they really didn't know. Either way, that needed to be pulled, so that is good.

 

(and in regards to Ebay in general, not that user, since that's resolved now)

Yep yep, like Birdlady said. You can hardly blame a service, when the userbase is where the problems come from. I've been playing around at Ebay since... wow, Jul 21, 1999 hehe. I guess I signed up for it back when the whole "dot com" everything went boom. Thankfully, some of the valuable services like Ebay and PayPal are still around!

 

Wherever there is a system, there will be a person whose sole purpose in life is to find a way to buck that system. Such is the nature of jerks.... I hate spammers, and people who waste good knowledge building viruses instead of useful programs, and the lot of them. Okay, I'm off my for the night!

[Shell]

Australia now has a free trade agreement with the USA which means a lot of things have come into line with US standards. Copyright for example for Aus was 50yrs, but since the free trade agreement it has come in at 70yrs. So no, originating country changes nothing. I see a lot of this on ebay, including people selling "ebooks" which i believe are basically links to free patterns and other sites on the web! ebay can be such a bad place for people getting caught unawares about their purchases

[Vickietoria]

Hey, I just checked it out to see what it was and everything, and report it, but it was already pulled. Perhaps it was b/c of those on here who reported it, and made ebay aware of the item. Good job everyone!

Victoria

[Shell]

while we're on this topic, items such as this one http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=128945&item=8283713030... are they fraudulent too? i wouldnt imagine you could "rewrite" something and claim it as your own with your own rights to it? i realise copywrite is a taboo subject here, so a simply yes/no would be fine or contact me personally

[Amy]

while we're on this topic, items such as this one http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=128945&item=8283713030... are they fraudulent too? i wouldnt imagine you could "rewrite" something and claim it as your own with your own rights to it? i realise copywrite is a taboo subject here, so a simply yes/no would be fine or contact me personally

 

I need to clarify for everyone that copyright is NOT a taboo subject here any longer. (If anyone hasn't read our forum guidelines since they were revised in May, please take some time to read them now.) Just as long as everyone stays civil in their discussions, and realizes that any misinformation posted will be either corrected or deleted, we shouldn't have a problem!

 

I cannot give a definitive answer as to whether this is a copyright violation or not, simply because I do not know when the copyright on the vintage magazine expired. If it was a crochet pattern from 1858, okay, copyright probably expired long ago. Somehow, I don't think the pattern is anywhere near that old!

 

Generally speaking, if the copyright on a magazine/pattern is still in effect, then, yes, rewriting and revising the pattern and then redistributing that version IS a violation of copyright law. (Unless someone has express written permission to do this from the copyright holder.) Rewriting and revising is what is known as a "derivative work," and the copyright holder retains full rights for all derivative works (including translations to other languages) and how they are distributed.

 

Hope that helps!!

[Shell]

thanks Amy that helps a lot. this seller has a lot of these kinds of things listed and some she states "from the 60's" etc. Either way, unless it is 1930 or older it is all still copyrighted in aussie law. and reading our gvt websites on copyright i believe that to sell or distribute to another country you must abide by THEIR laws. so for example if Aus copyright was 10 yrs, and USA 60, one would need to wait another 50yrs before being allowed to share it in the USA, but not amongst other aussies. not sure how universal these guidelines are, but thanks to the free trade agreement with Aus/USA at least that is all cleared up (even if they have disapointingly elongated our own copyright by 20yrs *grumble*)

[Samio]

Hey Shell

 

I have just the seller a message asking her when the patterns were from, I will wait for her answer before I respond with any details about copyright. It definately is not legit what she is doing. She says herself under "errors and corrections"

 

The pattern has been faithfully copied from its original form. Itchy Stitchy cannot accept responsibility for errors inherent in the pattern. If we have identified any errors, we will endeavour to correct it as well as stating what was in the original pattern.

 

Ho Hum

[Shell]

lol samio i bet ya get no reply!! did you look at her other listings? she has a heap of them. all claiming her own rights to the rewriting!! yes i know she put in hours and hours as she so clearly tells us but we all know the difference. i think i may have seen some of the original person under question in this thread last week. the photo copied patterns. but when i went to report nothing under copyright seemed to fit so i just left it shaking my head. i rememeber on ebay seeing a toy classed as "super ultra rare" and marked up 3 fold and it was just a new toy released for which the media campaigns hadnt started yet, all i can say with ebay is buyer beware. got to love the "USA/UK Brand Label" so nicely scrawled across the top of a lot of toddler clothing when it's probably just a Chinese mass production. If i cant find a website on the brand then I don't believe it lol

[crochetsal]

I've contacted ebay before regarding a seller selling copied patterns. She was very hedgey when I emailed her asking if it was for the whole leaflet containing other patterns. She simply stated the auction was only for those patterns. Since the patterns were ONLY sold in leaflet form, and there was no way to not get the other patterns at least partially by cutting pages, I knew. I then noticed other patterns, some of which I had just gotten in a recent magazine. And which, after that sold, miraculously, she had another!!

 

Ebay did NOTHING. I contacted them on 2-3 different occasions. Finally, I discovered (can't remember exactly) DRGcop and contacted them regarding the listing. And also contacted the DRG network. Her listings that were violations were finally removed.

 

I am a big Harry Potter fan and often visit JK Rowling's site. She commented she had had difficulty with ebay as well, sellers forging her autograph and selling it as the real thing. Ebay did nothing.

 

To sum it up, although ebay states these things are wrong and not allowed, if they get their money for the listing and the final value fee, I don't really think they care.

[Krystal16]

No, Ebay doesn't really care, and they don't step in, which I think was the point with my earlier rant...

 

If you want to make yourself crazy, go here: http://cgi.ebay.com/1920-Dainty-Bonnet-in-Roll-Stitch-Crochet-Pattern_W0QQitemZ180019645020QQihZ008QQcategoryZ41229QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

It's a link to an ebay search with the terms "pattern crochet (photocopy,copy)" Over 500 potential copyright violations. Of course, I didn't look into all of them, but just from the pictures it looks like a good possibility.

 

Edited to fix the link and change the search terms to exclude those that said "Not a copy" or "Not a photocopy".

 

Got time? Have fun!