I paid for a free pattern!

[gingerchai]

I am wondering if this has happened to anyone else. About a month ago I purchased the Rainbow Dreams scarf pattern from Herrshners. Yesterday I was browsing the Caron website and found the same pattern for free. After comparing the two patterns the only difference between the two was the width of the scarf. Has this happened to anyone else? It's too late to return the pattern. But perhaps this message will help another crocheter for wasting her money on a pattern that she could have gotten for free.>:

gingerbone

(a few dollars poorer, but wiser)

[RebeccaVelasquez]

oh man, that sucks.... thanks for the heads up!!!

[Guest SamplerLady]

I don't buy patterns. If I can't find it free on line, or figure it out I don't make it. I feel there is way too much free stuff to choose from I don't spend my crochet budget on patterns.

 

Sorry you got the wrong end of the stick on this one.

[bythehook]

I'm with SamplerLady! I haven't bought a pattern since I discovered crochet on the web. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif" />

[MommaChelle]

There is a lot of that going around. People on ebay are selling patterns that are being offered free on sites like lionbrand and other yarn websites. I notice that a lot of patterns you pay for will pop up for free on a yarn site or at freepatterns.com. I will most always search for a free pattern before buying it. If I see a pattern I want for sale, I do a web search to find it free.

[Tiffany]

I did a similar thing with Herrschner's and now I'm on my guard. I'm googling every pattern to make sure that it's not free somewhere. I bought a yarn kit from Herrschner's that included the pattern that with a basic search I couldn't find anywhere (immediately after I got it in the mail I did ). I can't buy the yarn locally, so I would have to order it online, but I might have been able to save a lot if I had the pattern. Very frustrating, but a good lesson to learn for the future.

 

And, there's nothing wrong with buying a pattern if you really like it and want to make it. Stitch Diva has amazing patterns that I am more than willing to purchase, one day.

[Donna]

Sorry that happened to you gingerbone! However, I have to strongly disagree with a philosophy of never buying patterns. Obviously that's up to the individual, budget considerations, etc., but I have an enormous amount of respect for pattern designers. A lot of blood, sweat, and tears goes into a good design, and they can't all be free. As much as I'm sure we would all love to share our creations freely all of the time, we all have financial obligations. If people didn't ever get paid for their designs, they probably wouldn't have time to design as much, because they'd need to be doing something else that brings in income. I suppose that's a bit more than my two cents, so... :2 :2 :2 :2

[Guest SamplerLady]

I certainly understand your point, Donna. It's a valid assessment of designers and such. However, the "all or none" scenario rarely occurs in my experience. Even though there are diehards like Dot and I that only take advantage of freebies, there are also lots of people that don't use the internet, don't know how to research on it, don't use libraries, and feel the only place to find patterns is commercially. So I really don't think the market is in any serious danger of disappearing by use of freebies. Yarn companies will still pay designers to create new patterns to encourage the sale of yarn. Just another opinion.... )

[Donna]

I like freebies, too. Who doesn't? I like getting them and I like giving them. It wasn't my intention to imply that the market is in danger of disappearing. But I felt it important to make the point of acknowledging the right of designers to charge for their patterns.

[gingerchai]

After all is said and done I plan to continue purchasing patterns, but I will be more particular about where I purchase them. Unlike some of the other posters here I just cannot look at an item and figure out how to make them. I am not that skilled, at least not yet. Using patterns actually improves my skills because they teach me the principles of pattern design.

 

The less than honest practice of selling patterns that can be found for free in other places is what really pissed me off. I guess this is just a case of live and learn.

 

gingerbone

[RebeccaVelasquez]

i'm with you ginger!!

[HollyM]

Ginger,

If this was a recent transaction, try sending Herrshners an email asking for a refund. Can't hurt, right? Keep your letter polite and matter of fact. It's possible it wasn't intentional, the pattern might not have been on Canson's sight when Herrshners started selling it. Hopefully they'll do the right thing!

 

Holly

[crochetme]

It's possible, as well, that the pattern started out for sale, and that it was copied and posted for free after the fact. Although I have no knowledge of this having actually happened, it's certainly a possibility. Just because a pattern is offered for free somewhere does not mean that it should be...

[Stephanie]

Ginger, you have my sympathy, but this happens with everything-both patterns and books. I remember one gal who spent $75 for a used knitting book (it was a much sought after out-of-print book) only to find out several days later that it was just reissued (could have bought it for $20 new). I do try to check the freebee sites before purchasing, but you know what? I never feel ripped off anymore if what I bought was of value to me in the first place. I got over that, although it took awhile.

 

Usually the situation is that it was a for-sale item and now the original pattern maker (in this case Caron) is now making it available for free. However, the catalog still owns copies they need to sell.

[4PJ]

I don't want to add to 'betting a dead horse' but you know one of the ladies had mentioned how the paid pattern could have been copied and then offered for free. This is where the copyright law lines really BLUR! If you PAY for a pattern (assuming it's copyrighted) and then that YOU change the pattern for your use and then perhaps add to it or change it's size- ,since it's now your design then you decide to offer the pattern on-line,is it still copyrighted?

 

I know we can all agree designing is very important and anything we make we don't want people to copy unless we say it's ok....but it's another thing if companies using this 'blurry copyright' idea and change one thing just to turn around offer for free to sell their yarn! .....or perhaps it's what goes around comes around? I love to buy magazines that way you get a lot of patterns and then if it's a designer starting out they can have the exposure/support of the magazine company.......ok just my:2

I think the copyright issue concerning all areas of people designing are important and unfortuantely the internet complicates that.

[Donna]

4PJ wrote:

If you PAY for a pattern (assuming it's copyrighted) and then that YOU change the pattern for your use and then perhaps add to it or change it's size- ,since it's now your design then you decide to offer the pattern on-line,is it still copyrighted?

Adding to a pattern or changing it's size would be considered a derivative work, which means it is not your design and you can not offer it online or anywhere else. The original copyright holder is the only one with the right to prepare derivative works, unless you have received permission from the copyright holder.

 

I've recently been collecting links explaining copyright, and here are a few that mention or discuss derivative works:

Crochet Partners: What Does Copyright Mean?

Nolo: Copyright Ownership and Rights FAQ

Bitlaw: Rights Granted Under Copyright Law

[Donna]

Oh, and I forgot to address this. . .

. . . you know one of the ladies had mentioned how the paid pattern could have been copied and then offered for free. This is where the copyright law lines really BLUR!

Copyright lines can be blurry, but not here. A copyrighted pattern can never be copied and offered for free, except by the copyright holder or someone who has received permission from the copyright holder (in this case, Caron International). I think what Kim meant was that it's possible that the copyright holder was initally selling the pattern and then the copyright holder later offered it for free.

[Sonny321]

Hi I too have a copyright question.

 

I have this book by Liz Blackwell called " A Treasury of Crochet Patterns" published in 1971( Wonderful resource) Anyway it's a collection of pattern stitches Not actual patterns of items to be made. There is this lacy stitch pattern that I am using in an item that I hope to submit for publication, The entire garment other than that lacy border is my own design, however if I use that lacy border pattern can I claim the gament as an original?

 

Also On a seperate project that I am working on, I saw this ribbing from a Sweater Jacket in a 80's Crochet magazine and the pattern for the back ribbing on that jacket would be Ideal for the Tunic sweater I am making, The patterns stitch combinations the gament design and all else are from my head, except for the ribbing which is exactly as the ribbing is for the back portion of the Jacket pattern, Can I use that and still claim it as my own idea? I'm not sure how that works?

[Donna]

First, a disclaimer: I'm not an attourney and I haven't consulted an attourney. Okay, that said, a person can not copyright a stitch. A person could patent a stitch technique, but that is rare.

 

Take the shell stitch for example. It's used in tons of patterns. Nobody can have a copyright on that stitch. What they do have copyright on is the written pattern they authored using the shell stitch for a sweater or purse or whatever. Stitch patterns can be used in your own design, but they must be written in your own words, not copied at all from somewhere else. Here is a discussion that may help clarify. Does that help?