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Help with multiples


RED DOG

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I just got a pattern for a sweater which says easy skill level.  The directions start out v-st pat: (multiple of 4+3) does not give you a number to chain.  I have no idea what that means.  The finished chest size is supposed to be 60”. Row1: Ch 1, sc in 2nd ch from hook,*sc in next 2 chs,ch1,sk1,sc in next ch;rep from* until 2 chs rem, sc in last 2 chs, turn. It does not tell you how many chains to start with.  I would appreciate any help with this.  Thanks.

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An example of multiple of 4, +3  --  10 x 4 = 40, plus 3 = 43

Sometimes stitch multiples for a stitch pattern repeat and the multiples for the chain are different things--this is one of those cases where throwing a couple of extra chains in is not a bad idea, you can pick them out later with no harm done.

 

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Sounds like you might need to do a swatch to figure out gauge in order to know how many chains you are going to need.  That generally needs to be done when making garments or something that has to be a a specific size.  Granny Square is great at explaining how that all works.  

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I totally missed that this was for a sweater, I apologize--I must have stopped reading after you said "I don't know what (the multiple instructions) mean".  This is really odd for a wearable pattern, I'm trying to figure out how that even works, unless it's a cardigan that is kimono-style, or a pullover that is made like a T-shirt (in other words, just rectangles).  Meaning, patterns that gives you stitch multiples are usually more for blankets than something that has to fit.

But, at least it gives you measurements, and we know you want to end up with 60".  So, gauge swatch - do one for sure, I'm going to make up numbers  for my example but don't USE them unless by some weird coincidence I guessed right (which would be a 1 in a million chance--I'm just picking random numbers).

Do that swatch, at least 5" across (for MOST wearable patterns, you can fudge the stitch height by adding or subtracting rows, but you have to pay attention to gauge for width) .  Measure across 4" - reason, the outside stitches are sometimes less consistent than the rest.  Count the # of stitches, even fractional stitches Let's say that over 4", you have 20.5 stitches.  That's 0.195" per stitch. 

60 inches divided by .195 = 307.7 stitches, lets call it 308.  Your stitch multiple is 4, plus 3.  308 divided by the stitch multiple 4 is... exactly 77.  So, I'd start with 307 stitches, which is 76 x 4, plus 3.

Does that make sense?  If it doesn't, come back and tell us what your swatch says and I'll pull out my calculator again for you ;) 

 

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17 hours ago, Granny Square said:

I totally missed that this was for a sweater, I apologize--I must have stopped reading after you said "I don't know what (the multiple instructions) mean".  This is really odd for a wearable pattern, I'm trying to figure out how that even works, unless it's a cardigan that is kimono-style, or a pullover that is made like a T-shirt (in other words, just rectangles).  Meaning, patterns that gives you stitch multiples are usually more for blankets than something that has to fit.

But, at least it gives you measurements, and we know you want to end up with 60".  So, gauge swatch - do one for sure, I'm going to make up numbers  for my example but don't USE them unless by some weird coincidence I guessed right (which would be a 1 in a million chance--I'm just picking random numbers).

Do that swatch, at least 5" across (for MOST wearable patterns, you can fudge the stitch height by adding or subtracting rows, but you have to pay attention to gauge for width) .  Measure across 4" - reason, the outside stitches are sometimes less consistent than the rest.  Count the # of stitches, even fractional stitches Let's say that over 4", you have 20.5 stitches.  That's 0.195" per stitch. 

60 inches divided by .195 = 307.7 stitches, lets call it 308.  Your stitch multiple is 4, plus 3.  308 divided by the stitch multiple 4 is... exactly 77.  So, I'd start with 307 stitches, which is 76 x 4, plus 3.

Does that make sense?  If it doesn't, come back and tell us what your swatch says and I'll pull out my calculator again for you ;) 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Granny Square said:

I totally missed that this was for a sweater, I apologize--I must have stopped reading after you said "I don't know what (the multiple instructions) mean".  This is really odd for a wearable pattern, I'm trying to figure out how that even works, unless it's a cardigan that is kimono-style, or a pullover that is made like a T-shirt (in other words, just rectangles).  Meaning, patterns that gives you stitch multiples are usually more for blankets than something that has to fit.

But, at least it gives you measurements, and we know you want to end up with 60".  So, gauge swatch - do one for sure, I'm going to make up numbers  for my example but don't USE them unless by some weird coincidence I guessed right (which would be a 1 in a million chance--I'm just picking random numbers).

Do that swatch, at least 5" across (for MOST wearable patterns, you can fudge the stitch height by adding or subtracting rows, but you have to pay attention to gauge for width) .  Measure across 4" - reason, the outside stitches are sometimes less consistent than the rest.  Count the # of stitches, even fractional stitches Let's say that over 4", you have 20.5 stitches.  That's 0.195" per stitch. 

60 inches divided by .195 = 307.7 stitches, lets call it 308.  Your stitch multiple is 4, plus 3.  308 divided by the stitch multiple 4 is... exactly 77.  So, I'd start with 307 stitches, which is 76 x 4, plus 3.

Does that make sense?  If it doesn't, come back and tell us what your swatch says and I'll pull out my calculator again for you ;) 

 

Thanks Granny Square for all your help.  I wanted to give you more information.   After the v-st pat:  directions for 8 rows.  Underneath that It says DIRECTIONS: back:  for the size I am doing ch 91

Work in v st pattern until back measures 26” ending after Row 8.  So I guess I did not read far enough and that this is the beginning chain for the size.  Its really confusing but if I work the pattern along 91 chains it comes out right.  Let me know when you can what you think.\

Thanks so much

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The only other thing - is your gauge right?  If you are making the back, assuming front + back = the 60" you were aiming for, presumably the back should be 30" across.  Does the pattern have a diagram that shows the measurements of each piece?  Good thing to double check before you get too far.

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15 minutes ago, Granny Square said:

The only other thing - is your gauge right?  If you are making the back, assuming front + back = the 60" you were aiming for, presumably the back should be 30" across.  Does the pattern have a diagram that shows the measurements of each piece?  Good thing to double check before you get too far.

Yes it does have a diagram and you have been so helpful.  I don’t know if you can answer this question? I have tried to get hold of the pattern help people but they do not answer the phone right now because of the virus.  When you get to the sleeve shaping

Row 1:  Work in v-pat across back, ch40 (36,32).  I am doing the large size, so I am wandering if this is an error because I know pattern sizes go S, M,L, I am thinking the 40 should be for the large.  I would like to know what you think?

Thanks

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That's interesting.  It sounds like the front and back are T shaped, and the chain is the base of the sleeve, presumably the other side either has you chaining the same #.

Actually I'm thinking that.....if one's body core is fluffier, it doesn't mean ones arms are also longer (ones skeleton doesn't get fluffy).  In other words, from center back to wrist (arms outstretched), comparing a small size person to a large size person with the same wrist-to-wrist measurement: the small size's sweater would probably comprise more sleeve length% than back, versus that of the larger size.

This is something you can customize/check yourself.  You know from the body what the measurement of 40, 36 & 32 stitches would give you for sleeve length, what looks best to you?  When I make a sweater for myself, I have one in my closet that I use as a template for new ones, it fits nicely, sleeve & overall length is where I like it, etc.  I lay my template sweater out on the bed periodically and 'measure' my new project against it.

Just realized I could have saved a lot of typing - what does your diagram look like?  Does it confirm the larger size has shorter sleeves than smaller sizes?

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18 hours ago, Granny Square said:

That's interesting.  It sounds like the front and back are T shaped, and the chain is the base of the sleeve, presumably the other side either has you chaining the same #.

Actually I'm thinking that.....if one's body core is fluffier, it doesn't mean ones arms are also longer (ones skeleton doesn't get fluffy).  In other words, from center back to wrist (arms outstretched), comparing a small size person to a large size person with the same wrist-to-wrist measurement: the small size's sweater would probably comprise more sleeve length% than back, versus that of the larger size.

This is something you can customize/check yourself.  You know from the body what the measurement of 40, 36 & 32 stitches would give you for sleeve length, what looks best to you?  When I make a sweater for myself, I have one in my closet that I use as a template for new ones, it fits nicely, sleeve & overall length is where I like it, etc.  I lay my template sweater out on the bed periodically and 'measure' my new project against it.

Just realized I could have saved a lot of typing - what does your diagram look like?  Does it confirm the larger size has shorter sleeves than smaller sizes?

It looks like I can work it out from the diagram.  Its just a very vague pattern and I can see from the reviews others have complained about it too.   You have been a tremendous help and thank you for taking the time to help me.  You are very kind.

Thanks again

 

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On 6/17/2020 at 8:01 AM, RED DOG said:

It looks like I can work it out from the diagram.  Its just a very vague pattern and I can see from the reviews others have complained about it too.   You have been a tremendous help and thank you for taking the time to help me.  You are very kind.

Thanks again

 

Hi Granny Square

I am not there yet but I thought maybe you could help me with this. Directions Back:  Ch 91, Work in v-st pattern until back measures 26” ending after Row 8.  The next part is the Sleeve Shaping: Row 1: Work in v-st pat across back, ch 32 at end of row to create bottom edge of left sleeve turn.  Do I do another row of the v-st pattern across the back and then ch the 32?  Row:2 Work in v-st pat across all sleeve and back sts, ch 32 at end of row to create bottom edge of right sleeve turn.  When you have time maybe you can explain this to me.  I have made sweaters before but really having a hard time understanding this pattern.  I understand the back part, but the sleeves are the problem.

Thanks again

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Hi, you mentioned part of this above, where I surmised you were making a T-shaped pattern, the 'easy' way (which your pattern is doing)makes the sleeves not the same depth, in that 1 sleeve is 1 row shorter than the other--but this is not too noticeable.

Right now you have the back, and you are at the end of a row.  Now you will chain 32, which is the foundation row for the sleeve that is going to stick out from the back.

After the chain, turn, work across the chain and keep going across the back.  Now you will chain another 32, which is the foundation chain for the other sleeve, turn, work across the new sleeve foundation + back + first row of the original sleeve.

Next rows you will be working back and forth across this now seamless 32+back distance+32 stitches--well that is not quite right, because part of the 32 chains at each end become turning chains, but hopefully that makes sense.

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Here is a crude diagram--

The blue box at the bottom is the back

The red line is the first foundation chain

The green is where you work across the red foundation chain and the back

The pink is the foundation chain for the other sleeve

Then, just back and forth across sleeve+back+sleeve; near the top there might be shaping where you work on one side, then the other, to form a 'dip' in the middle for the neckline shaping.

chain for sleeve.jpg

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20 hours ago, Granny Square said:

Here is a crude diagram--

The blue box at the bottom is the back

The red line is the first foundation chain

The green is where you work across the red foundation chain and the back

The pink is the foundation chain for the other sleeve

Then, just back and forth across sleeve+back+sleeve; near the top there might be shaping where you work on one side, then the other, to form a 'dip' in the middle for the neckline shaping.

chain for sleeve.jpg

HI Granny Square

This is great.  I understand perfectly from the diagram and its not crude at all.  Thank you for taking the time to do that.  I don’ think I would have ever figured that out without your help.  I hope I can get through without more problems.  Thanks again and be safe during this crisis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/19/2020 at 10:41 AM, RED DOG said:

HI Granny Square

This is great.  I understand perfectly from the diagram and its not crude at all.  Thank you for taking the time to do that.  I don’ think I would have ever figured that out without your help.  I hope I can get through without more problems.  Thanks again and be safe during this crisis.

 I wanted to give you more information.  If I could just figure out how to start the sleeve.  I would be fine.  I understand the diagram completely.

These are the complete directions:

Row:  Ch 1, sc in second ch from hook, *sc in next 2 chs, ch 1, sk 1, sc in next ch;rep from * until 2 chs remain, sc in las 2 chs turn.

Row 2:  Ch 1, sc in same st, *sc in next 2 sts, ch 1, sk 1, sc in next st; rep from * until 2 sts rem, sc in last 2 sts, turn

Row 3: exactly the same as row 2

Row4: Ch 1, sc in same st, sc in next st, *sk 1 st, 3dc in skipped space 3 rows down, sk 1 st, sc in next st, turn

Row: 5 Work same as row 3

Row6:  Work same as row 2

Row: 7:  Work same as Row 3

Row 8:  Work same as Row 4

Rep Rows 5-8 for pat

Directions:

Back:

Ch 91,

Work in v-st pat until back measures 26”, ending after Row 8

Sleeve Shaping:

Row 1:  Work in v-st pat across back, ch 40 at end of row to create bottom edge of left sleeve

So I ch 40 at the end of row 8, but after the ch what would be my first stitch be into the ch.  Do I go back to Row 1 I started with?   And do I ch the 40  and then turn to do the stitch pat that way I would be working on the back of the chain.   When I get to the end of the ch40 and back to the back I would usually do a ch1 and turn this would keep all my v stitches in the same place.  Thank you for any help you can give me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello again!  My guess is that you would be most likely to be following the same stitch pattern as the body.  Doesn't Row 2 of the sleeve shaping tell you?  If not, look at the pattern photo, you should be able to tell if the stitches above and below the armpit look the same, and if it's different, it would be remiss if the pattern didn't explain to change to a different stitch pattern.

From this point on, the lower back is complete, so the point where the body edges used to be are just stitches for you to work into, nothing ends there any more and there's no chaining up and turning at those old edges any more.  You are now working on a different, longer cuff-to-cuff piece.  This would be the green line on my diagram, you just work across the chains, and when you run out of chains just continue without interruption across the back's stitches

Hopefully this works out pattern-wise if after chaining 40 for the sleeve foundation, and you work back across the sleeve to the body in the stitch pattern, the stitches on the body are 'in the right place' to just keep on going with the pattern.  If stitches don't line up , the underarm point would be a good point to 'fudge' a stitch or 2 to get them to line up, no one will notice.

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21 hours ago, Granny Square said:

Hello again!  My guess is that you would be most likely to be following the same stitch pattern as the body.  Doesn't Row 2 of the sleeve shaping tell you?  If not, look at the pattern photo, you should be able to tell if the stitches above and below the armpit look the same, and if it's different, it would be remiss if the pattern didn't explain to change to a different stitch pattern.

From this point on, the lower back is complete, so the point where the body edges used to be are just stitches for you to work into, nothing ends there any more and there's no chaining up and turning at those old edges any more.  You are now working on a different, longer cuff-to-cuff piece.  This would be the green line on my diagram, you just work across the chains, and when you run out of chains just continue without interruption across the back's stitches

Hopefully this works out pattern-wise if after chaining 40 for the sleeve foundation, and you work back across the sleeve to the body in the stitch pattern, the stitches on the body are 'in the right place' to just keep on going with the pattern.  If stitches don't line up , the underarm point would be a good point to 'fudge' a stitch or 2 to get them to line up, no one will notice.

Hello Granny Square

Thanks for answering so quickly.  I appreciate all the effort you have put in to help me out.  You are very nice to do that.

Thanks again

Red Dog

Thanks 

 

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