If I want to use a specific hook and yarn to create texture but can't get gauge, can I size up the whole pattern?

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Hi

 

I am working on a waistcoat for my mum. She liked a pattern that called for worsted but she wanted cotton and so we found a beautiful yarn that is, however, thinner than the pattern's (4 ply). To get the texture we like requires using a 5 mm hook - otherwise the stitches are too gappy. Sizing up hooks to a 5.5 mm makes for a much less pleasing swatch - and though I haven't blocked it yet 5.5 anyway looks like it will be slightly too large a hook where 5 was slightly too small. She loves the cotton yarn we have so we don't want to change that either!

 

The pattern offers a range of sizes based on wearer's chest measurements - mum anyway measures somewhere between two of the sizes given. My question is: can I simply go one size up e.g. from a M to a L and come out with a garment that will fit, or will I still run into problems? i.e. will an 'incorrect' gauge with a slightly too small hook produce a scaled down mini version of the pattern, or would it be out of proportion?

 

Thank you!

 

Jo

 

 

[Granny Square]

I just erased what I'd written, I misread your question.

I wouldn't.  That's too much of a difference in yarn size; I have subbed a sort of chubby dk weight for a worsted pattern successfully, but not gone from UK 4 ply (sport weight in US) to worsted.  You would need to completely re-write the pattern.  Does the pattern give a schematic?  If you are very brave, you could toss the pattern and just work to the shape of the schematic, but you can't just follow another size's direction - do the math on the width of 1 of your stitches at the fabric drape you like, and multiply it by the largest size's stitch count across the bust --this will answer your question (it will probably fit a child, not an adult).  Also, you are going to need more yardage of the thinner yarn, than the worsted weight pattern called for.

Your best chance of success is to find a similar looking pattern designed for the weight of yarn you are wanting to use.  

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Granny Square

[Granny Square]

I had to 'run off' yesterday evening, I had meant to ask if you could link to your pattern, or at least a photo of what the finished item looked like--I was going to see if I could find a similar looking one in sport weight yarn that might appeal to your mom.

Some free ones--

https://www.berroco.com/patterns/elliot   this would be easy to amend to eliminate or shorten the peplum, comes in many sizes.

https://www.freepatterns.com/crochet/apparel/blue-denim  here's one that's a bit more feminine; you have to register to download the pattern, but it's free and they don't send you advertising.  It's part of the publication group that owns Annie's Attic patterns and US crochet mags such as Crochet! and Crochet World.

https://www.yarnspirations.com/patons-daisy-mesh-vest/PAC0132-001437M.html  the pattern download is free; feminine lacy vest

https://www.yarnspirations.com/red-heart-savvy-sweater-vest/RHC0132-025412M.html

https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/crochet-gilet--vest-for-women  looks like it's only 1 (generous) size, video pattern

 

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Hi Granny Square!

Gosh, thank you so much for spending so much time on this for me! I really like quite a few of those patterns and I'll show my mum to see what she thinks - she tends to like a quite plain style so I think the second one might appeal.

If it's ok, I want to get a bit more clarity about one thing you said. Useful for future projects as well to understand properly - esp as there pos is a solution if I understood correctly.

Let me see - so hard to phrase things like this in words! I will link to the pattern and attach a picture of my swatch at the end (if you promise not to judge me!) as it may help explain.

The pattern calls for two hooks - and recommends a size 5 for smaller and a size 6 for larger (or whatever needed for gauge).

It says that the gauge is 15 stitches and 15.5 rows per 4x4 inch square when using the larger hook. So I made a swatch using a size 5 (ie going down one hook size) which, before I blocked it, was 4x4 inches - after I blocked it (which I stupidly did in a rush and not very neatly) it was 3.75 x 3.5 inches. Hindsight makes me believe the different sides of the square may have been different from each other prior to blocking without me noticing - and I now have learnt the lesson don't block when you're rushing off somewhere!

I tried measuring a single stitch and it's 1/4 inch x 1/4 inch (I think I started looser and tightened up as I went, which explains why I didn't get a perfect square swatch, despite an average stitch being the same height and width).  When I multiply this measurement by the stitch and row count in the pattern for the very largest size for the back I get 25.5 x 25.25 inches.

As that's pretty huge and not a child size this leads me to guess that what I might not have made very clear in my first post is that although the yarn is very different, the hook I'm using is only one mm smaller than the suggested one and I'm not miles off from matching the gauge.

So that being the case, and assuming I can get my tension even(!) (this is the first time for me using cotton rather than wool), does this change things in terms of your advice? When you said it would make a child size waistcoat this led me to think that following the pattern when gauge was out would make a perfect scaled version of it - only affecting size as opposed to distorting the geometry of it. Did I get that right? If so - with the clarification above - does that mean I actually could follow a larger pattern and come out with the required size?

Here is the pattern

https://crochetkim.com/swish-mens-vest/

And attached is a pic of my poorly blocked swatch using a 5 mm hook (I also seem to have missed a stitch where I change colours!) next to a ruler and also the beginnings of an unblocked swatch using a 5.5 mm hook, which in its unblocked state matches gauge but in real life has a much less pleasing texture.

Hope that makes sense and thank you so much again!

Jo

[Granny Square]

You're welcome!

General tip - to measure a single stitch, rather than literally doing that by squinting at 1 stitch with a ruler: Your pattern says 15 stitches across a 4".  Using those numbers to do the math, the way to measure 1 stitch is to divide 4 (inches) by 15 (stitches) - so 1 stitch should be 0.267" wide.  For most wearables, I usually disregard the height gauge and focus only on the width gauge, because you can usually add or subtract rows to get vertical fit where it needs to be (but of course it doesn't hurt to check it).

So, you are getting close to the right gauge (or one that's going to work for you garment-size-wise), with a fabric you are happy with, with, using US sport weight and following a worsted weight pattern?  Wow! and yes I can't think of why this wouldn't work then.  I'm guessing the yardage should work out the same, as well.

 

 

 

 

[Granny Square]

For the record, ignoring my own advice to make a bigger swatch than what the pattern defined as 4", I just did a gauge swatch over 14 stitches with US sport weight yarn (Bernat Baby yarn) with a H hook (5mm, the smaller hook used in the pattern, for the trim only), and it was 3 1/2" across.  (sorry, that part got folded over in a corner in the scanner)

Switching to a J hook (6mm the pattern calls for for the body), it was 3 7/8" (I'm surprised it was that close to the H; I agree I liked the fabric of the H better)

Switching to worsted weight (Red Heart Super Saver) and same J hook, it was 4 3/4". 

So, I guess in this case your solution is working due to a happy coincidence that the designers' gauge (may be) on the tighter side.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Granny Square

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Wow! How lovely of you to do that for me! that was so kind of you! I'm totally delighted it looks like I can go ahead - and also this is a skill I can keep for the future as I now know how to check.

Mum is overjoyed she can have the yarn and the pattern she picked out!

Thank you so much again ❤

[Granny Square]

You're very welcome--I was just really curious, and very surprised how close I got to the worsted/aran weight pattern gauge with sport yarn, and that sport yarn didn't look too awful with a J hook.  Lots of people dread swatching, but it really does come in handy!  

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Sorry for the slow reply. We are just trying to adjust to the covid crisis here in the UK. I hope you are doing ok where you are. 

I agree about swatching. It's not the fun part but I feel it can prevent less fun parts down the line. I am currently 'inventing' a way out of a bottom up jumper that I thought was wise to make following about three different patterns at once. This is possibly known as mix and match before you can stitch....

Thanks again!

Jo

[Granny Square]

Hi, you're welcome.  Hubby and I are retired and we only have been venturing out for a (quick!) weekly trip to the market, and today I cancelled a routine dentist appointment coming up, to reschedule when things calm down.  Hubby was grumping he needed a haircut but supposed he should wait, I told him it was OK if he grew a ponytail (he was not amused).

VERY scary times!

Good time to stay home and work on crochet projects!