Need help with pattern

[Astytchintym]

Hello

I am crocheting a cardigan, the pattern of which is found in the link below:

https://www.ilikecrochet.com/magazine/crochet-sweater-patterns/amethyst-lace-cardigan/

My question pertains to Row 2 of Shell Lace of Special Stitches, the last part - "3 dc in third ch of beg ch".

Row 2: Ch 3 (counts as dc), 2 dc in hdc, *(sc, ch 3, sc) in ch-2 sp, Sh in ch-3 sp; rep from * to last ch-2 sp, (sc, ch 3, sc) in ch-2 sp, 3 dc in third ch of beg ch, turn.

I am not understanding what/where the third chain of beginning chain is located. It would be great if anyone can help me with this.

 

Thanks in advance!

Tania

 

 

 

[magiccrochetfan]

It's the turning chain of the first row.  It counts as a dc, so you stitch into the top of it just as you would into a dc.  

[Granny Square]

^ What she said.  The third chain is the third, last, topmost  of the 3 chains made.  

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Granny Square

[Astytchintym]

This question somehow did not show up here when I posted it. I am re-posting it again.

Thank you very much Magiccrochetfan and Grannysquare! But I am not yet sure what 'turning chain' of the first row constitutes. Is it the sc in the 4th chain of the hook (beginning of row 1) part?

[Avon Lady]

At the beginning of Row 2, where it says "Ch 3 counts as dc)"--so the turning chain is the 3rd chain in that Ch-3.  That's where you put your 3 dc.

[Granny Square]

In your question"Is it the sc in the 4th chain of the hook (beginning of row 1) part?",  is the sc a typo?  I'm thinking it should have been DC. Reason:  the conventional way to start row 1 into a foundation chain, where the first stitch is a DC, is:

Foundation row: chain a bunch.  

Row 1: turn, DC in the 4th chain from hook to the end. 

Row 2:  turn chain 3, skip the first stitch, DC in all the DCs and in top of the turning chain   (I'm describing a pattern of plain DCs, not your pattern, but the way to deal with any row where the first stitch is a DC is the same; well it doesn't need to also end in a DC, but usually patterns are symmetrical like that.)

The reason is, the 3 chains skipped  when you made a DC in the 4th foundation chain take the place of the DC, and are treated as 1 DC.  Then at the start of row 2, the reason you ch 3 (which is the first DC) and skip the first stitch in the row below is because the turning 3 chains are 'in' that first spot (functionally if not actually).  If you chain 3, and DC into the first stitch, you will have increased a stitch.  And because the chain 3 is treated as a DC, for the same reason you need to stitch into the topmost chain at the end of a row where the row below started  with a ch-3 dc.

Some lacy patterns may have a turning instruction that says 'chain some number greater than 3 and DC in a specific stitch" (counts as 1 DC, x chains)'.  Example, it might say chain 4, DC in in the third stitch of the row below (counts as DC, ch-1), where 3 of the chains are a DC 'in' the first stitch, 1 chain spans the second stitch, and the dc in the third stitch is the first real stitch you made, but actually the 3rd stitch in that row (the chain being 2 stitches).

I hope that makes sense.

 

[magiccrochetfan]

6 hours ago, Astytchintym said:

This question somehow did not show up here when I posted it. I am re-posting it again.

Thank you very much Magiccrochetfan and Grannysquare! But I am not yet sure what 'turning chain' of the first row constitutes. Is it the sc in the 4th chain of the hook (beginning of row 1) part?

So this is the pattern I found online https://www.ilikecrochet.com/magazine/crochet-sweater-patterns/amethyst-lace-cardigan/  

the turning chain is the three chains right before the sc.  so you place the dc into the third of those chains.  

[Astytchintym]

I finally figured it out how to do this thanks to all of you

I literally read your answers and the pattern and crocheted simultaneously to understand it. Again I am very grateful for your help.

Thank you Avon Lady!

Thank you Magiccrochet fan!

Thank you Granny Square for your elaborate answer!!! It was so detailed I had read and then re-read again several times to get all the points that you mentioned. Frankly speaking I understood some of them but not all (I'm just a beginner:( ). But thank you so much again.

I am sure I will be back again with many questions from this pattern.

 

Warm Regards

 

[Astytchintym]

Hello

I am back with another question regarding the pattern.

The section I am having a problem with is - "Right Sleeve Increase for Shoulder"

It reads:

Next Row (RS): Ch 3 (counts as dc), 2 dc in hdc, *(sc, ch3, sc) in ch-2 sp, Sh in ch3 sp; rep from *to last ch-2 sp, (sc, ch3,sc) in ch-2 sp, Sh in 3rd ch of beg ch; working onto reserved ch 12, sk first 2 ch, (sc,ch3, sc) in next ch, sk 2 ch, Sh in next ch, sk 2 ch, (sc, ch3, sc) in next ch, sk 2 ch, 3 dc in last ch, turn -3 Sh, 4 ch-3 sps.

Work Row 3 of Shells Lace patt, then rep Rows 2-3 of patt until piece measures 24 1/2 from beginning, ending with Row 2 of patt.

I have 2 questions:

1. What does "turn-3 Sh, 4 ch-3 sps" mean?

2. When the pattern is saying "Work Row 3 Shells Lace patt..." and if we go back to Row 3 pattern, it ends with (sc, ch 1, hdc) in top of beg ch. But where is the beg ch in this "Sleeve Increase Section"?

 

Thanks again!

[magiccrochetfan]

Answer to question 1.... that is your stitch count for the row you just completed.  

[Granny Square]

For your second question, here are the 'turning chain rules' -- when the first stitch of the next row is a:

SC - turning chain is 1, does not count as a stitch so you don't stitch into it at the end of the following row

DC - turning chain is 3, explained in my prior post.  Most patterns assume you know the 'rule' and won't mention stitching into the turning chain of the prior round; this pattern is more specific than many.

HDC - weird stitch.  Turning chain can be 1 and treated like SC, or 2 and treated like DC.  The pattern should tell you--your pattern chains 2 and does not count it as a stitch unless I missed something skimming the pattern.

Treble - turning chain is 4, does count as a stitch like DC;  this goes for taller stitches, the initial chain just gets longer (DTR is 5, etc.)

So for your specific question, if you are repeating rows 2 and 3 of the shell lace pattern, row 2 began with a chain 3, which is the last stitch that you encounter at the end of row 3, so your last stitch of row 3 is into the top of that chain 3 from row 2.

Note on the 'rules' - this is the convention that the pattern writer assumes you understand and may not spell out for you--99.9% of patterns follow these rules.  However crochet is very flexible so you may run into exceptions; lace sometimes breaks the rules for example.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Granny Square

[Astytchintym]

@magiccrochetfan - that makes sense now, so it will be the complete row combining the 2, earlier I was just counting the reserved ch 12 section.

@granny square - that's valuable information! I am a novice and am teaching myself to crochet so this will go into my notebook

 

[Astytchintym]

When the pattern says 'beginning of chain', does it mean the first chain? Also when the pattern says top of chain (consisting of 3 chains for eg) which one should it be? The second one?

Another question regarding the chains, when I am crocheting into a turning chain should it be through the front loop/back loop only or through both the front and back loop?

[Granny Square]

Hi again.  I'm going to take the last question first - there are several ways to stitch into a foundation chain.

The way I learned, and still use after experimenting with others:  with the chain-looking part facing you, stitch into the top loop only.  This works with any project, leaves an edge that looks like a chain with it's legs crossed, and has the same tension as the following fabric.

Second method- with chain facing you, insert the hook under the top loop and the loop behind the chain (the back bump).  This leaves a single loop at the edge, and also has neutral tension.

Third, which leaves a nice looking edge which is the chain facing side mentioned above - is to flip the chain over, and stitch into the back bump.  Admitting that this is my least favorite, but lots of people love it for the way it looks...the drawback is that using the back bump pulls the chain tight, and IMO is the most fiddly of the 3 methods.  Typically you'd do the chain with a hook 1 or 2 sizes bigger than you use to work into the chain, and the rest of the project, to mitigate the resulting tightness of the chain.

There's actually a way to start a flat piece without a chain, using 'foundation stitches'.  Again. a lot of people think these are the best thing, but -- they do not work with every stitch pattern (some lace patterns use the initial chain as part of the lace, which wouldn't work with a foundation stitch for example).  This is also probably a more intermediate technique, and is a bit fiddly, so put this away to think about later.  

First question - I don't see 'beginning of chain' in your pattern; I also can't swear I've never seen it in a pattern, but I can't recall it if so.  Usually a pattern will be specific, like 'top of turning chain', 'chain 10, slst in 4th chain from the hook', ' sc in 3rd ch of next chain space' sort of thing.  The only thing that occurs to me is something like 'chain x, dc in the 4th chain from hook and back to beginning chain', but that sounds odd, 'to end' is what you usually see.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Granny Square

[Astytchintym]

Noted, Thank you.

Reg the First question, sorry I wrote 'beginning of chain' when it should have been 'beginning chain'.

So my question would be, when a pattern (for not a foundation chain) is saying for eg, "3 dc in third ch of beg ch" then where should my hook go into, the back/front loop of the particular chain or through both the back and front loop.

 

[magiccrochetfan]

I'd go under both , because it is sturdier and has less chance of stretching out too much.  

[Astytchintym]

ok, i thought so too.

[Astytchintym]

Here's another question, but this is regarding a different project.

I wanted to work on a vest from a pattern. But the person I am making it for corresponds to the large chest size but medium length size. In this case what should I do? Which size should I follow?

[magiccrochetfan]

Depends on how the pattern is worked.  Can you link to the pattern, or at least to a description of it?  Or if it's in a book tell us title and pattern name.  

[Granny Square]

3 stitches into a chain - your choice.  I've only once stitched into under the top 2 loops of a foundation chain , and that was because the first row had 15 (!!) stitch shells into 1 chain, so that did need more stability. (I did try it my usual way first, tho)  But I've often put 3 or 5 stitches into 1 chain loop, and thought it looked OK.  It's nice to have options, tho--rules for some things, crafter's choice for lots of other things!.

For most patterns you could probably follow the large directions and just make fewer rows for the medium size (when I say most, it can be tricky if there's lengthy stitch pattern repeats).  Does the pattern have a schematic (a sketch of the pieces with measurements)?  or some patterns will say something like 'work x inches for small, y inches for medium, z stitches for large' between armhole and hem area.  

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Granny Square

[Astytchintym]

Here's the link to the pattern:

https://www.yarnspirations.com/row-en/red-heart-easy-v-neck-vest/RHC0232-018261M.html

[magiccrochetfan]

Ok, so this is a vest for 6 to 24 month old.  I would probably try to make it a bit big so it will be wearable for a longer time.  But if you want it to be the right length right now, as GrannySquare said, you can omit rows to shorten it.

The reason I asked about the construction is that some designs are made differently and you'd need to adjust different things.  Like some garments are made side to side and then you'd have to omit stitches to shorten.  Some are even made diagonally and that would be a very different kettle of fish to adjust!  

[Astytchintym]

Even if I do omit rows and take the length for the medium size, won't it also affect the armhole shaping? If the armhole shaping does not correspond to the medium size then how do I make adjustments to it? Is there a calculation for shaping the armhole irrespective of size?

[magiccrochetfan]

I would look at it as reducing length from the bottom hem to the beginning of the armhole.  Then just do the armhole according to the larger size.  Seems to that if the girth of torso is larger, the arms are probably chubbier also so the child could use the bigger armhole.  

To know for sure, you'd need to measure the child's arm.  

Also in case it hasn't been mentioned, be sure to check your gauge after laundering.  if gauge is off then you'll need to readjust.  Ordinarily I'd say to make a swatch, but with a small item like this, I'd just use whatever I had made at the point I first need to add new yarn.  

[Astytchintym]

Thank you magiccrochetfan, I think I will go ahead with doing the large size because I am too inexperienced to risk mixing the large and medium sizes

[magiccrochetfan]

You're welcome.  I agree , I would make the large, the baby will probably grow into it.