Pinwheel doily question

[Jackmeister]

I’m still new at crocheting doilies... Typically they ruffle like they’re too big, not cupping like they’re too small. Is this normal for a pinwheel pattern? 

[Granny Square]

I much prefer ruffling.  Cupping stinks, because you can't block it out unless it's really mild, which this isn't.  You can yank ruffling to flatten it, but the fix for cupping is the opposite, and I haven't found a way to shove the excess fabric to the center.

This looks very much like the start of a doily I did last year that I had cupping problems with, and had to add a boatload of stitches to to get it to work.  I don't think it's the nature of spiral doilies in general tho, as I've done others that came out fine.  How I solved my problem was to add chains between, I added them to the chains between the solid parts -- ended up adding 3 chains per section, which changed the look; if I made it again, I'd have added 1 chain, and 1 DC on each side of the spiral to blend the look of the added stitches if that makes sense. 

Adding 3 on my pattern worked for my tension and that pattern (and I had to rip and re-do the starting couple of inches a few times to get it looking right) BUT the solution to getting it flat for your tension is to either work this in shorter stitches (extended SC or HDC) or add stitches, or a combination.

What pattern are you using?  Adding stitches might get complicated once you get past the spiral part, if something different comes later, so shorter stitches might be the ticket.

[Jackmeister]

I’ve already ripped this one apart 3 times for one reason or another. I was hoping the cupping would level out, instead it just got worse. I’ll try adjusting the stitches like you suggested and see if it flattens out without messing with the design. Thank you  

[Granny Square]

Ooh, pretty.  I like your choice in doilies, nice combo of pinwheel, pineapples and flowers.  

The one I had issues with had 6 solid areas and 6 chains and didn't split into more chains and 'other areas' like yours does, so you might not have as much trouble hiding extra chains as I did.  

So, I know you've ripped several times, but try again adding 1 chain in each chain space (total 8 chains added) when it starts to cup and see how it goes; if it starts to cup again, add another chain--this would be 16 extra stitches, it might start to ruffle but (I would) let it go, you have an extreme cup going on and worst case you just might have to block out a slight ruffle.  Keep notes of where you added what, and when the pattern starts to branch out to more than 8 chains you'll have to redistribute the extra chains and will need to keep track of where you put them.

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Granny Square

[Jackmeister]

I tried adding stitches, still cupped. I tried altering a few rows to make the beginning smaller, still cupped.  Finally decided after 7 new beginnings that it was the pattern. So I found a new pinwheel doily pattern that is currently cooperating, then I’ll try and merge the pinwheel design back to my original pattern for the pineapples and floral border. Fingers crossed! 

[Jackmeister]

I have learned there is no fun in normality, but there is increased stress in unusual projects 😜

[Granny Square]

Hang in there.  I'm stubborn too, there's a doily designer on Ravelry that has some very original designs that appealed to me, I've made 4 of hers but I had a heck of a time with cupping on 3 of them (the other was very chain loop heavy, I think chain loops cover a lot of tension sins), and have ripped and re-made a LOT more rows than I ended with with, to get them to lay flat. 

It felt good to defeat the problem, but you're right, some times you just need to put a pattern down and move on.

 

 

 

[Granny Square]

I just looked at the Ravelry projects; out of 10, 8 made no mention of issues, 1 said it ruffled but blocked out, and 1 gave up due to cupping and had a pic that I would have sworn was one of yours above if the yarn wasn't a different color.  Interesting.

[Granny Square]

If you are interested...I decided to start the doily and also had cupping issues.  I gradually added a bunch of chains, which don't look TOO bad/gappy; I'm up to round 19 and though it still cups I can block it out, and I don't think it's going to get worse after this point (see photo).  The  pattern for 1 repeat at row 19 calls for 3,2,3,3,2,3 chains so 16 chains per pattern per segment (8 segments total), for which I subbed all 5 chain spans, so 30 chains per segment.  Difference is +14 chains per repeat, times 8, is an added 112 chains in that round.  (That's crazy, I think the most I've added is about 30 chains to a doily to get rid of cupping, but this is a bigger doily).  Row 19 is at the end of the pinwheel/base of the pineapple.  

Here are the changes I've made up to round, I'll add to it as I go.  This is the new # of chains in 1 repeat (segment), all else is the same.  Round 1-3 per pattern. (edit - to clarify, if I just say '5 chains', I mean everywhere it says  some number of chains in that row, do 5 for every chain span [except the turning/row up chain].  If like row 17 for example "5-5-7-5-5 chains", it means in 1 repeat there are five different chain spans, the first 2 are 5 chains, the third is 7 chains, the 4th and 5th are 5 chains.  Hope this is not clear as mud.

rnd 4-6=4 chains not 3 
rnd 7-8=5 chains 
rnd 9=6 chains 
rnd 10=7 chains 
rnd 11=5 chains 
rnd 13-16=5 chains (including shell, also going forward) 
rnd 17=5-5-7-5-5 chains 
rnd 18=5-5-4-5-4-5-5 chains 
rnd 19=5 chains.

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Granny Square

[Jackmeister]

Looks good, thank you. I looked up other patterns too.... after the 14th start over I finally have one that I’m happy with, until I noticed my counts got off somewhere 😓

I added an extra dc to the end of every other row, and an extra chain twice (total) when needed. My pinwheels might be thicker than intended so I’ll take advantage of having to back up a couple rows and see how it looks. 

All this time I thought pinwheel patterns would be easy! They shouldn’t be this complicated. But I’ve hit the point of determination where I will triumph.... eventually 😉

[Granny Square]

I thought about adding DCs but then was worried about how it would go when the arms started to narrow up; I'd have to add chains at that point, so just went with adjusting chains all the way.  Yours looks good, flatter than mine.

Didn't manage to get much further yesterday, it was a make, oops and rip day (not because of difficulties starting the pineapple section, just distracted).  Will post more lines when I'm sure they'll work out.  

[Jackmeister]

I was doing so well for a while, now It’s cupping again. It looks like the cupping began when I stopped increasing the pinwheel and started adding the new design. Extra chains to the rescue! 😉

That pattern must be designed for thread and an itty bitty hook. 🤔

[Granny Square]

You can pin that little bit of cupping out.  Actually mine is a little worse in the middle (my doily looks pregnant) and it blocks out.  Try it (pin it out dry).

Actually I'm fiddling with amending the last row, which I wanted to be the one ending with the flower petals.  Pretty much my amendments after row 19, where I left off above, is chain 5 on either side of each shell, as well as in the middle of the shell, and the rest to pattern.  This is what I DID, what I'd suggest to you is just chaining 5 on either side of the shells, and do maybe 3 chains in the middle of the shells because I'm not sure those mid-shell chains helped.

In fact I'll take a pic in it's present ruffled edged baby bump middle state--I think it will make you feel better.  

[Granny Square]

Here's my pregnant doily, actually maybe more of a volcano...

That's the nice thing about lots of chain areas versus solid; if this were solid, it would never block out.

[Jackmeister]

It does have a nice volcano center going on, the pineapple look really good.  I’ve fiddled with mine a bit too.  It does still have a little cupping, but it’s all in the chains and should block out just fine. But this is the most I’ve ever had to fiddle with any pattern! 

[Jackmeister]

Realized that image is deceptively flat... 

[Granny Square]

Mine blocked to about 18" on the torture rack blocking board after stopping at round 30.  I put it outside, shouldn't take long to dry (sunny day, low-ish humidity) and I'll snap another pic, sans volcano.

[Granny Square]

No more volcano, yours should be fine.

[Jackmeister]

That did flatten out nicely, looks good! I’m still slowly working on mine as time allows. 

[Jackmeister]

[Granny Square]

Thanks for the update, I was wondering how you were doing.   Even tho it's looking lumpy right now, I'm confident you'll be able to block it flat.  I think pineapples cup a little just by the nature of so many stitches in the starting shell; you can see mine cupping under a bit in the volcano pic.

Hang in there!  It's frustrating that as you near the end you want to get it DONE already so you can admire it, but the darn rounds keep getting longer...

[Jackmeister]

I ran into an issue with the count on the pineapple at the end with the flower, and the edges were cupping pretty bad again....  Damn you OCD brain! 

[Jackmeister]

Sorry for the delay in updating.... life kinda took over for a little while. ☺️

[Granny Square]

Pfft, don't apologize, hey it's a hobby there's no deadline.  But    on the ripping out, sorry this pattern has been such a pain.

[Jackmeister]

thankfully this project is for my sister so it’ll be in her house and I won’t see it often enough as a reminder of how annoying it was 😜

note to self on future doilies: stick with pineapple patterns and avoid ones with excessive dc designs

[Jackmeister]

I’m happier with it ☺️

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Jackmeister
Better image