Magic circle or ch 4 to make a ring, ring ch 4- 3 dc

[Belgiancupcake]

Hello,

I'm starting a new scarf project, and I have to begin with this pattern,
I have no idea what this means, do I have to do a magic circle and chain 4 or only one of the two?
Also, If I only chain four, and I immediately do 3 dc in my ch4, I get completely lost and can't find any of the other chains, how do I keep up which chain is which in a circle?
And if I only do the magic circle without the chains, how can I possibly do 3dc in the 4th chain if there are no chains to begin with?
This is all very confusing
Thanks for your help!

 

[Belgiancupcake]

Hi!

So I got to the same point as your picture (thanks it helps so much!), but my tail is on the right side (I don't know if that's important?)
And from here I'm supposed to do "in ch 2, 3 dc, ch 1, 1 dc". Which is why I'm confused about the chains???
And the final result is supposed to look like 2 triangles (with the 3dc) with the magic circle in the middle.
Normally these patterns come with a video but not this time, and I haven't found any other video that doesn't immediately stitch in circles to make circle pattern...

I'm sorry if I'm so slow, it's the first time I'm using a magic circle (I've only made square patterns so far which required V stitches and shell stitches with double crochets and nothing more complicated that that.)

 

[magiccrochetfan]

Its in brackets to denote that it is all done into one space.  There should be a chain two in the row below, that is the ch2 sp.  sp stands for space.  

 

Second set of brackets is all done into the top of the turning chain .

[Belgiancupcake]

Hii!
So I managed the magic circle (yaaay) and I've started the second row, but I don't understand the brackets?
Row 2: Ch 4, 3 dc in ch 1 sp, ch 1, [3 dc in ch 2 sp, ch 2, 3 dc in same sp], ch 1, [3 dc in turning ch, ch 1, 1 dc in same sp] change to colour B, cut yarn for weaving, turn.
I've done the Ch 4, 3 dc in ch 1 sp, ch 1, but now for the 3dc in ch2 I don't know what ch2 is supposed to be? Also I don't know why it's in brackets.

(clearly I'm having difficulties with the chains  )

Thanks for your help!

[Granny Square]

Yippee!!  So glad it clicked

[redrosesdz]

Yea! I'm glad you figured it out. Thanks to granny square's link.

You're right that you can't post an entire pattern. You are allowed to post a couple of rows where you're confused. 

[Belgiancupcake]

Oooooh now I see! Thank you, it's so much clearer now 

I'm gonna practice making your version first then, before trying my pattern.

Thousand thanks for your help

[Granny Square]

Ah, so it's a half granny.  (I was just sitting here trying to see if it made a difference where the tail was; maybe there's more than 1 way to make a slip knot. If I flip mine over the source thread's on the  wrong side (in the front), and you can't work over the tail, well it's sort of a mess.  I'm not very ambidextrous...)

I'll see if I can find another half granny pattern, if only to get you started.  I think once you get going, it's going to be a thousand times easier.  

Here's one.  No videos, but it has bunches of photos.  I was also a little concerned about your pattern because it just said 'make a ring' but didn't tell you how (slip stitch into first chain); this one explains things more thoroughly.  Does this help at all?  

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11PMo-XvVKC2d8fIrWIbty4XYHKdatYakdLwSoK_Stmk/preview

 

[Belgiancupcake]

I bought the pattern so I don't know how much I'm allowed to post on here, but:
Row 1: Magic circle or ch 4 to make a ring, in ring ch 4, 3 dc, ch 2, 3 dc, ch 1, 1 dc, change to colour A, cut yarn for weaving, pull ring tight, turn.
Row 2: Ch 4, 3 dc in ch 1 sp, ch 1, [3 dc in ch 2 sp, ch 2, 3 dc in same sp], ch 1, [3 dc in turning ch, ch 1, 1 dc in same sp] change to colour B, cut yarn for weaving, turn.

I'm already stuck at the first row so I haven't even begun to decipher the 2nd row.
The picture below shows what the first 4 rows should look like.

[redrosesdz]

What's the link to the pattern? Please type round 1 and round 2  exactly as they appear in the pattern. Seeing a picture and the entire instructions for round 1 altogether would help us to help you.

The word "in" before ch2 makes no sense. Either you're supposed to do ch2, then 3 dc in the magic circle, then ch1, and finally another dc in the magic circle... or work "in" a ch2. The instructions without the word "in" make sense. The word "in" implies that you made a ch2 previously, which you didn't do.

[Granny Square]

I don't know what happened, I made 2 different posts and ended up with 1 post, duplicated.  Trying again...

I was thinking, to help you see that those individual chains in the initial ring are irrelevant, is to have you try an adjustable ring instead.

The adjustable ring/magic loop can look complicated, but really it's just a slip knot.  (this is one of those things I had to watch a couple of videos on, for that to dawn on me).  We all know how to make a slip knot to put the yarn on the hook.  For the ring, make a slip knot around the hook, but don't close it tight over the hook - leave it open, maybe 1".

This leaves you with a yarn loop over the hook, and a big ring below.  Yarn over, pull thru that loop, and you've made a chain around the ring.  Make 3 more chains for the chain 4.   Yarn over, stick the hook into the big opening of the ring, and complete a DC.  Now make 3 more, and you've got what's shown in the picture below,  Note, you work over the yarn circle and the tail, so over 2 strands.

Have you ever made a shell stitch, or a granny square?  In a shell stitch, you make 3 or more stitches into 1 stitch.  For a granny square, you put 3 stitches around a chain between stitches in the round below.  Think of this big yarn slip knot as one big stitch opening that you are putting several stitches into.

Below is an open slip knot with chain 4 and 3 DC made over the ring and tail.  The tail is the end pointing down, the yarn from the skein is at the left.  When you're done, pull the tail end to tighten up the ring to where you want it, and weave the tail in well later.

[Granny Square]

^ What she said. Your last post said "I'm unable to find all the other chains".  Your'e not supposed to be able to find them.  You are supposed to cover them up with the stitches. 

If you think about it, the magic/adjustable ring shown in the video is pretty much just strands of yarn.  You con't/can't work into the strands, right?  You want to use them as a base to work the stitches around, but you don't want the threads or chains exposed.  

Stop thinking of the first 4 chains as stitches, because they are not.  Think of those 4 stitches as 1 thing, a ring, that you make stitches around and cover up.

I hope you don't think I'm lecturing you; I'm just trying to say the same thing several ways hoping that one way will make more sense to you    (I know it works that way with me and new techniques--sometimes I have to watch more than one video before it sinks in)

[redrosesdz]

Not quite. Here are the steps...

1. Make a magic circle 

2. Chain 4. This is your chain-up.  Do NOT crochet into these chains in round 1.

3. Make a dc in the magic circle. Yarn over, insert your hook in the middle of the magic circle, yarn over, pull through a loop, finish the dc.

4. Repeat step 3

5. Repeat step 3.

[Belgiancupcake]

Thanks a lot!

I think I understood, So I start with a magic circle, then I chain 4, but I chain through the hole of the magic circle, and then I can start with my dc in ch 4 and 2?
Since I have so few chains, when I'm done with the 3dc in ch4 I'm completely unable to find all the other chains, Is there a trick for that?

[redrosesdz]

I agree with granny square. Make a ring, then do the instructions ch4, 3dc into the ring.

Chain-up means to do chains at the beginning of a row/round to get to the height of a stitch. Patterns usually tell you when the chain-up counts as a stitch. It's extremely rare to crochet into the chains of a chain-up. The pattern's "ch4" is round 1's chain-up. 

When you're doing rows, the foundation is chains. Row 1 is done in the foundation chains. The first stitch's chain-up is the skipped chains.

When you're doing rounds, the foundation is a ring. Round 1 is done by crocheting in the ring, rather than in chains. The first stitch's chain-up is chains.

There's two types of rings... adjustable and static. Adjustable rings can be pulled close. Static rings keep a hole in the center. Your pattern is telling you that either one will work. The choice is yours. 

Adjustable ring: either a magic circle or ch2. For ch2, the first chain is the ring. It expands as you add stitches. 

Static ring: 4-6 chains, then sl st to the first chain. 4 is the most common number of stitches for a static ring.

I  hope this helps! 

 

[Granny Square]

When you work in the round from the center, you create some sort of ring (either several chains, or by the magic ring/adjustable loop)  and then stick your hook into the hole made by the ring, and make stitch around the ring.  You normally don't make stitches into the chains.

An exception, I've seen examples where you start with chain 2, and then you make several SC into the first chain; so in this case, when you are only starting with a few stitches in the center, the chain becomes the ring. (SC circles usually start with 6 stitches when the center is closed, like for a hat for example; you can easily get 6 stitches into 1 chain, and form your first round that way).  I'm just mentioning this exception, that's not what your pattern is telling you to do  

If you had a  beginning circle that was made of 4 chains joined into a circle, you could probably stuff 15+ stitches into/around the chains of the circle.  A lot more than you'd think, anyway.

Back to the magic circle, and the confusion about the 4 chains.  You also make that first chain around the magic circle threads, also by sticking your hook into the circle.  That 4 chains will be come your first stitch or stitches.  If you started with 4 chains, then closed the ring, then 'chained up' 4, the next stitches would be made by sticking your hook into the ring and making the stitches over/around the ring.

Here is a video.  This one is starting with a magic circle and she's only chaining 3, not 4, but it's the same principle as if you had started with chain 4 to make the initial circle, joined to the first chain with a  slip stitch, and chained 3 or 4.  I hope this helps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukrrfXc8_Cw

 

[Belgiancupcake]

@Granny Square

It's not a free pattern, but it says: 
Magic circle or ch 4 to make a ring, in ring ch 4, 3 dc,
And then I have to do another stitch in ch 2.

So my trouble is that if I chain 4 and then I do 3 dc in ch 4, I can't find ch2 for the next stitch.
And if I do a magic circle, I don't know what the ch4 is in which I'm supposed to do the 3 dc.

Oh and it's in US terms.
Thanks!

[Granny Square]

Is this a free pattern on the internet, if so can you link to it?

I would interpret this as follows

Magic circle or ch 4 to make a ring, -- I think this means that you get to choose which; I've never found a pattern where I couldn't use a magic circle in place of a joined chain

ring -- extra word?  or maybe they meant join the ring?

ch 4- 3 dc  -- I would interpret this to mean that the chain 4 takes the place of a dc (usually it's chain 3; maybe it's meant to take the place 1 dc + 1 chain?), and then you make 3 more dc after that, into(over) the ring.  When you are working in the round, starting from the center like this, you don't normally work into chains to start with like you do when you work back and forth, where make a long chain, turn and work back.

Just as I typed that, I realized - are you using a pattern that has US terms, or UK terms?  A US single crochet is the same as a UK double.  Normally you start a row or round of US SC with 1 chain, a row of US DC with 3 chains as the 'turning chain' to bring the thread/yarn to the height of the next  row.