making smaller sizes to patterns questions

[catwoman]

Hi.I was wondering if a person could make a hat ,blanket,sweater,socks patterns smaller sts and rows by putting not as many sts and rows they say in the patterns so that it is smaller ? So it can fit better on different sizes If so ,How does a person figure it out ,adjust it ,calculate (do math)and do that ?Could a person do that with any pattern?(I just want to know if it is possible?
Any help and opinions would be nice.Thanks.

[redrosesdz]

Lol!

[Granny Square]

If you are designing a hat from scratch, (that starts in the center and works toward the brim) with your personal stitch tension, and you want it to fit a specific person (or age group as in Bev's link I gave you above), you need to understand the relationship pi has with head and circle dimension.  Period.    

Just remember pi is 3.14.  The distance around your head is circumference.  Divide your head circumference by 3.14, and you know the diameter (distance across, at the center) of the circle you need to make to start the hat.  The reverse of that, if you randomly make a circle, measure it's diameter and multiply by 3.14, and you will know the head size that circle will make a hat to fit.  

You don't need to use pi unless you are working on or modifying a hat, or at least I can't think of anything else clothing-wise.

The .33 was just an example, (actually, it was Ellie13's example, I just continued using it).  It is the stitch width of a pattern that has 12 stitches per 4" across.  Other patterns will have a different number of stitches across 4", so you have to figure out what the fraction is for any gauge if you are going to vary from the pattern, and know where it is going to end up.  The way I knew that each stitch was supposed to be .33" across per the stitch gauge of 12 stitches per 4" across was to divide 4" by 12 stitches--this tells me each of those 12 stitches is .33" across.  Being a little silly, but hopefully to help you see the relationship - if the pattern gauge was 4 stitches across 4", you would intuitively know that each stitch was 1" across.  4 inches divided by 4 stitches is 1".  Or, an easy fraction - if the pattern gauge was 8 stitches across 4", 4" divided by 8 stitches is 0.5" per stitch. 

If  you aren't sure what your answer means, try thinking of it in reverse, and doing THAT math, as in:  OK, I just divided 4" by 12 stitches and got .33, so what did that mean again, and is that the right number?  What happens when I multiply .33" x 12 stitches...oh, 4, so .33 is the right answer for the width of each stitch in inches.  What I'm trying to get you to do is literally visualize what you are trying to get out of the math you are doing.  Visualizing (imagine a 4" ruler, divided by 12 hash marks...about how big would the space between each hash mark be?) and double checking your math logic will also help if you get a wrong/odd looking answer.

Really, it isn't hard.  If you don't have a calculator, get one (the Dollar Store has them).  

[catwoman]

Hi .I was wondering if a person has to go by the pi?And the diameter for making a hat ?do you have to go by specially 0.33?do you have to make a hat bigger around your head?also how does a person know that a each st is 0.33? Do you have to by fractions?

[Granny Square]

I was using Ellie13's example of 3 stitches per inch, 1 inch divided by 3 is one third of an inch wide (1/3"), which is 0.33" expressed decimally.  Most patterns tell you to make a 4 inch swatch, so Ellie13's imaginary pattern would have said 'gauge is 12 stitches over 4 inches'. 

Yes, pi is a number.  Rounded off, it's 3.14; it's an 'irrational' number which is a number that has an infinite number of numbers (in no pattern) to the right of the decimal point.   Here is a site that might be more information than you cared to know about pi , but for hats the useful thing  to remember is: hats are made in a circle, your head outline at the brim line of a hat is (sort of) a circle, and your head measurement at the brim line is the circumference of a circle for the purpose of calculating how to make a hat.  My 21" head, divided by pi (3.14), is 6.6879, which I roughly rounded up in my above post to 6 and two thirds inches, or 6.66" (hats stretch, should be a tad smaller than your head...a couple hundredths of an inch difference is close enough for a hat).  The formula to calculate the circumference (outline) of a circle is pi times diameter, so if you know the circumference, you divide by pi to arrive at the diameter.  (See, I told you there was/could be a lot of math in crochet!) You measured the circumference of your head, but you need to know the diameter of your head to know when to stop increasing the flat circle of the hat (by arriving at the calculated diameter), and to start working even.

The multiple of 5 + 2 thing...that is information that a pattern, or stitch dictionary, will give you.  From what I've seen, a blanket pattern (or something that's a plain rectangle) will be more likely to give this information than a garment pattern because the stitch count for a garment really has to be carefully figured out by the designer for all dimensions for each size given.  So, the result for the 5+2 example would be 7, 12, 17, 22, and so on.  Another random example--I've just opened my stitch dictionary to a random page with 2 shell-type stitches, one is a multiple of 10 + 1 (add 3 for foundation chain), the other is multiple of 8 + 1 (add 4 for foundation chain).  Some simpler stitch patterns might just say any even or odd number of stitches.  The reason the number isn't just 'multiple of 5' may be that you do a plain stitch at each end for a straight edge, and the pattern in the middle (example, 1 DC at each end, shell stitches in the middle).  You can figure it out yourself by carefully reading the pattern if it doesn't tell you; however, I've been crocheting for (eek) nearly 5 decades and usually don't bother figuring the multiple if it doesn't tell me, and do the extra chains trick as I explained above.

Sorry my posts are so verbose.  I hope I haven't confused you more.  

[catwoman]

HI.How do you get 0.33 '' inche wide?I am still kinda confused about what pi is ?and pi is 3.14 ?Also about the a multiple of 5 + 2 chains how do you get 2 from?

[Granny Square]

I totally missed the 'afghan' part of the OP's question, glad Ellie13 was more observant on that point; lots of good info on working with gauge.

One little 'cheat' on afghans, or anything that has you starting with a really long chain, is to remember that crochet does not unravel easily from the beginning (knot) end.  Even when a pattern says "chain x", and I want to follow the pattern and not aim for a different size, I count chains as I make them, but I usually make a few extra as insurance against miscounting - and pick the extra chains out later.  Or, sometimes the pattern doesn't give a stitch multiple, and I'm too lazy to figure it out, I just chain the length I want, and a couple of inches more - then turn, work to as close to the beginning knot as I want, turn and continue.

More on gauge - crochet can involve a lot of math, even just trying to follow a pattern.  For a wearable, it's important to hit gauge exactly.  If I don't, I figure out what a vital measurement would be at my gauge - say bust measurement.  Let's use Ellie13's example of 3 stitches per inch as the pattern gauge--a 4" gauge swatch would be 12 stitches across.  Each stitch is 0.33" wide.  The finished pattern sizes are Small (36"), Medium (40"), Large (44").  The number of stitches across the bust would be 108, 120, and 132 respectively.  Now, I need to measure MY gauge...and I end up with 13.5 stitches across, not 12.  So, each stitch is 0.297" wide (4 divided by 13.5), instead of the required 0.33".  If I multiply MY gauge by the number of bust stitches, my measurements would be 108 x 0.297=32", 120 x 0.297=35.64", 132 x 0.297=39.2".  Let's say prior to the gauge swatch I would have chosen to follow the medium size, but I see that without making another swatch with a smaller hook I can accept the 39.2" versus 40" measurement to fit me, so I just follow the instructions for the large versus medium size.  Sorry for the bolding, it just made it easier to to see/compare the numbers as I was typing   Notice I picked up a stitch gauge difference that was fractional, and didn't 'seem' too different from the pattern - you can see how much a fraction of an inch in gauge can matter a LOT.  Although I was using a pullover top as an example, this math would work for an afghan or anything else.

To your questions on the hat - pi (pronounced like pie) is a Greek letter that is used to represent a number that defines circle and sphere geometry--rounded off, pi is 3.14.  The diameter of a circle is the distance across a circle, from edge to edge and crossing the middle point; the circumference is the distance around the edge.  By height, I meant the distance from the starting point of the hat (at the crown of the head, the beginning of the starting flat circle) to the edge near the face. 

[Ellie 13]

Making hats smaller/larger is easy, you can use different hook sizes and yarns. If you need it to fit someone, do like Granny Square said.

For afghans made with squares you make more or less squares. If they are made in rows you must change the chain base row and make less rows. It's easier if the pattern says something like "a multiple of 5 + 2" . You chain a number of stitches divisible by 5 (50, 55, 60 etc.) as long as the width you want (36 in. etc.) then add 2 chains (52, 57, etc.). Work the pattern rows to the length you want (40 in. etc.), most patterns give a gauge, number of stitches per inch, number of rows per inch. If your gauge is not exactly the same, use a tape measure. If the pattern is just plain stitches, use the gauge as a guide. Example: 3 stitches per in. X 36 inches. = 108 chains, then add a turning chain (1 for sc, 2 for, hdc, 3 for dc). Rows per inch works the same way. Example: 2 rows per inch X 40 inches = 80 rows. 

[magiccrochetfan]

33 minutes ago, catwoman said:

Hi. I was wondering what does pi mean?

Also what does circumference ,diameter and height mean?

Thanks.

I think the quickest thing would be to google those terms to find their definitions, rather than for us to define these basic words for you.  

[catwoman]

Hi. I was wondering what does pi mean?

Also what does circumference ,diameter and height mean?

Thanks.

[magiccrochetfan]

Triplets separated at birth with a crochet psychic connection who just happen to be online at the same time more often than not!  ;-)

 

[Granny Square]

Heh, maybe we just have some sort of woo psychic crochet connection.  

[Avon Lady]

Are you girls triplets??!!

[magiccrochetfan]

1 hour ago, Granny Square said:

I think we have a record ladies - 3 posts all at once!!    Or at least your 2 popped up at the same time as I was typing.

haha  That is unusual!  

[Granny Square]

I think we have a record ladies - 3 posts all at once!!    Or at least your 2 popped up at the same time as I was typing.

[Granny Square]

There is no magic formula, like 'add or remove 5% of the stitches in each direction from a size A pattern to get size B'.  Too many variables, and people don't differ proportionately in each direction as sizes go up.  If I gain a lot of weight, my arms don't get any longer, or I don't get taller for example. Babies are all head and torso and short legs & arms, adults not so much.   And, the number of stitches is going to vary on the size of the yarn, the crocheter's stitch tension, etc.

An experienced crocheter, who had made many garments, could probably 'wing' a simple pullover sweater by following the measurements of a sweater that fits, or following a measurement schematic of another pattern.  But, it might involve a bit of trial and error (ripping and re-doing) here and there to get it right.

You can do some minor size adjustments by using a smaller or bigger hook, but that can only take you so far and there's that proportional thing to worry about.

Hats are easier to adjust, there is a formula where if you know the person's head measurement (circumference and desired depth), you can make a hat that starts at the top of the head without a pattern.  Most crocheted hats are made from the top down, starting with a flat circle, then working x inches without increasing.  Example, my head is about 21" around.  I don't like my hats tight, so I make them to fit without stretching.  Circumference = pi times diameter.  If I divide 21 by pi, I know the diameter of the flat circle needs to be about 6 3/4".  I like my hats about 7" tall (sort of shallow).  So, I make my flat circle and continue without increasing until the top center point to bottom edge is 7".  This works whatever yarn and stitch pattern I use.  Here is a site with a lot of hat and other sizes http://www.bevscountrycottage.com/size-chart.html

To make a flat circle - SC=6, HDC=8 or 9, DC=12 (US Terms).  Those numbers are the number of stitches in the first round, and the number you increase by, each round.

Socks are pretty similar; I've only knitted them, but they are basically a tube with a heel and toe.  If you know the distance around your leg and foot, and the length of the cuff you want, and the length of your foot, you can make a pair of socks that fit without a pattern - if you have some experience at making socks.  Again, this might involve some trial and error to get your gauge right with the yarn you choose.   But, if I wanted to make socks for everyone for Christmas, I'd have to measure everyone, so no surprises

There's a lot of work involved designing a clothing pattern, a lot of trial and error, and a lot of clothing construction experience.  It's a lot easier to rework an existing pattern slightly to fit you (subtract rows to fix a shortwaisted fit, add rows for long arms, whatever) than to start from scratch, or create a completely different size that isn't close to what you started with.

[redrosesdz]

Yes, it's possible to make any pattern smaller. The simple way is to use thinner yarn and/or a smaller hook. 

You can easily change the number of stitches for simple shapes, like squares, rectangles. Just count the number of stitches in the pattern repeat and reduce by a multiple of that number. For example, if a pattern repeats every 4 stitches, subtract 4 or 8 or 12, etc.

Recalculating circles and ovals involves reducing the number of rounds. The number of stitches is there to cover the diameter of the object. 

More complex items, like sweaters and socks, take more calculations. 

(Hi again, Kathy! Lol)

[magiccrochetfan]

i'm sure it's possible but probably more work than most of us want to take on.  you'd need a lot of info including the measurements of the finished item as written, your intended measurements, the stitch and row gauge in the pattern, your personal stitch/row gauge in your chosen yarn; then you could calculate the new number of stitches and rows to make your new size.   

i imagine the most common approach to this is to just use smaller yarn and hook and keep one's fingers crossed that it works out as hoped 

Either way, something without much shaping like a baby blanket, or small like socks, would be a good test project, rather than a more complicated thing like a sweater.