Knit 1, purl 2 in crochet panic!

[shandylouhoo]

I just received Knit 1, Purl 2 In Crochet and I'm so excited to start the process, however, I am a visual learner and I'm in need of some visual guidance. Does anyone know where I can get some visuals on how to do this new process? I have some vintage knit patterns I wanted to crochet! I love this book and I really wanna understand it.

[HomekeepingGran]

there is an extra http in your link, thought you'd want to know:)

Oooooo, thanks for telling me, Kathy! I fixed it, and tried it this time, duh. Now I know it works OK. I get points taken off for not testing it when I put it up. By the way, when I first tried fixing lace that way I had my lifelines in place but had to get my courage up to try it. Finally I realized that if I totally messed it up the lifeline was still there and I could just rip and re-do the whole thing. What did I have to lose by trying? (Still, I think my heart raced a little.)

 

I'm glad that made at least some sense, Jean. It does to me but... whadda I know?

[goodtaste]

I am so happy I found this exchange! I have had this book for the longest time and have not used it at all because I couldn't get it! Why advertise it as a new stitch when it is just slip stitch done in a different direction? Anyway, I guess that's marketing! Bendy even "talked" to me over private messaging here on Crochetville once, but it was solely about the cast on technique. I am both a crocheter and a knitter since childhood, so the thing shouldn't have been that difficult to me, it was just obscure because there were not enough illustrations to guide me. Bendy, please, if you ever write another book on this technique, include step-by-step photos for the sake of the rest of us. You are familiar with the stitches and it is very easy to assume that people will understand, but that is not always the case. I shelved the thing and forgot about it. Now that I have read these posts I will make some time to pick it up and see what I can do with it.

 

I want to thank everyone for their comments. The exchange has been beneficial for me, and hopefully, for others also.

 

Take care everyone!

[Crafty Witch]

Oh certainly, that purling is worked from the back needed to be explained, but I didn't think that detailed instructions on how to do a slip stitch were really necessary. In fact, I found that part confusing until I conceptualized it as "Oh, slip stitch, but change the direction and position of hook and yarn."

[Granny Square]

Sorry Bendy, I wasn't speaking of the terminology of purlwise, which is a common expression as far as I know, just not to most crocheters who don't knit (I think). What I meant was, the purl CONCEPT of inserting one's hook entirely backwards of how most crocheters are used to doing--yarn in front, hook from back to front. And, the stitch instructions bore repeating (as you conveniently did) with each swatch and project.

 

My intent was to say that I didn't think your instructions were overly complicated as opined by an earlier poster. I thought your stitch and cast on instructions were clear, but it's unfortunate that the cast on seems to have tripped up a lot of people, from reading comments here and on Ravelry.

[Bendy]

Interesting. I guess, "Purl Wise", is old time language or maybe just not used in all areas of the U.S.? But the directions repeatedly say that to purl one inserts the hook from the back to the front. I would certainly think people would know that if one inserts the hook from the back to the front to purl that if the directions say to insert the hook "purl wise" that the person would know to insert the hook from the back to the front.

 

I honestly hadn't thought about "wise" being an out of date or bizarre expression that people wouldn't be familiar with. Maybe insert the hook "the purl way" or insert the hook "the purl direction" would be better than insert the hook "purl wise"?

 

Interesting to ponder how language, even today, seems different in various areas of the U.S.

[Granny Square]

I disagree that the instructions for the swatches & projects are overly complex. Which loop to use is only a small part of it, one needs to understand the knitting concepts in the introduction. "Purlwise" is a bizarre concept for most non-knitting crocheters, and I'm not referring to which loop to use.

[Bendy]

That is basically what the book says to do

 

The directions for the cast on beginning is so that people who like to do everything in a knitting style can. Many people do. And the chart at the beginning is so that people who want to try to convert a pattern from knitting to crochet can learn what some of the knitting terms mean and how to do them in crochet. If I had left these things out, the people who wanted them would have been complaining

 

If you want to skip all of that, make a beginning chain and start working swatch one. The directions for how to do the stitches are repeated at the beginning of every pattern

[Crafty Witch]

From what I can see, this technique is basically slip stitch crochet. Knitting is slip stitching from the front of the work, and purling is slip stitching from the back of the work. The directions in the book for how to do the stitches seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

[Bendy]

I was told in a private message that the problem the original poster is having is learning where the front loop and back loop are. In case others have the same problem, I thought I would post the answer here.

 

Work a row of single crochet stitches. Then turn the row. Look at the top of your stitches. You should see what looks like a chain going across the top. The front loop of each stitch on that chain is called the front loop and the back loop of each stitch on that chain is called the back loop.

 

Normally when making rows of single crochet stitches, you insert your hook under both the front and back loop to make your next stitch. However, you can also work just in the front loop of the stitch or just in the back loop of the stitch.

 

People sometimes make ribbing by working only in the back loop on every row.

 

When you work a slip stitch, you have the exact same thing. A row of chains across the top. It works the exact same way.

 

Here is a photo from Annie's Attic showing where the front loop of a stitch is.

[Bendy]

I want to thank Jean for letting me know that this discussiong was going on. And I apologize to everyone for not being here sooner. Have a house full of company. They are all asleep now So I thought I would take a second to look at messages. Again I am sorry it took so long.

 

If anyone has any questions about how to do the stitches in Knit 1, Purl 2, I am more than happy to help.

 

Someone gave the advice to skip the cast on and just make a chain. I agree with that. Make a chain and then try the first swatch in the book.

 

In this style of crochet, the fabric is not as thick as Tunisian. It does have quite a bit of drape if done with the proper size hook.

 

I have attached a couple of photos for those reading who have not seen this style of crochet before.

[HomekeepingGran]

If you happen to remember and find that article could you please let me know the issue it is in. That sounds facinating and I would love to read it. Thanks!

As it happens I did look that back up. PieceWork Magazine, May/June 2009, "Knots and Loops: Untangling the Structure of Lace" by Nancy Nehring.

 

Additionally, if you are willing to poke around ad infinitum in a cool site, TechKnitter has a superb blog, and she has more than once talked about the relationships of stitches within a piece of knitting and how they support, or maybe don't support, one another well. She does no crochet that I remember although I certainly have not nearly read all her posts. (If you knit, she is an outstanding resource for solving all kinds of problems and understanding why one thing works and another doesn't work so well. She has a couple of indexes, one arranged alphabetically and the other, chronologically.)

[Cathoms]

Several years ago Piecework Magazine had an interesting article about knitting and crochet stitches, how they are formed, their relationships to each other within a piece, and the relative stabilities of the fabrics achieved. Because we are binding off every stitch in crochet (the knitting bind-off technique IS crochet and may readily be done with a hook) crochet work is extremely stable and not very fluid. Knit stitches depend upon one another and share yarns in a different way than crochet does. Hence, knitting has fluidity and stretch.

 

(At least, this is what I got out of it and happen to remember all this time later. I need to look that article back up and re-read.)

 

If you happen to remember and find that article could you please let me know the issue it is in. That sounds facinating and I would love to read it. Thanks!

[Daisy]

I do both crochet and a little knitting, so I bought that "Knit 1 Purl 2" book two and after reading through it, I was totally lost. there weren't enough graphic pictures to figure out just what they were trying to demonstrate. Through YouTube, I found that the "Knooking" procedure was a lot easier to understand.

[Lynn]

I actually learned to knit before learning to crochet. Learned to knit when I was about 10 and learned to crochet at age 16. I have always found crochet easier for some reason than knitting. I also am one of the few that like the look of crochet better than the knit look. If you are one that can use small hooks and fine threadlike yarns you can get some of the most delicate pieces ever and I believe much easier than in knitting. I guess what I'm saying is yea crochet!

[Granny Square]

Wow, thanks for posting that, very interesting!

 

Back on topic, I got to thinking that there are more ways to cast on than the slingshot/long tail, and the easiest is backwards loop, and guess what? When you do that and add the BO you get a crochet chain. :oopsThe Long tail CO in knitting more or less casts stitches onto the needle AND creates the first row of knitting at the same time, so it's more substantial, but not really necessary.

 

I think one should read through the first chapter, to know what's in it but let the details be a little Greek to you. Ignore the COBO section for now. Start in with knitting/purling a swatch in chapter 2, read COBO as 'chain', and refer back to the first chapter for instructions to form the stitches. Make your first row into just the top loop loop of the chain.

 

I really think it would be helpful to watch the videos on knittinghelp.com for a basic knit and purl stitch (watch the continental videos, yarn is held more similarly to crochet), for the purpose of better understanding the yarn in front for purl or back for knit, hook front to back for knit or back to front for purl. Different tool, same concept.

[jleinhauser]

Good explanation, Carla. That's why the fabric created by crochet can never have the

draping qualities of knitting.

 

Jean

[magiccrochetfan]

re the slingshot cast-on, there is another book published by DRG, Special Sttiches in Crochet, that uses this term but gives no information on how to do it. I had never heard the term at all, finally figured out it was the long-tail cast-on. Very frustrating! I've concluded that DRG publications never give enough visual information for me so i won't be buying any of their products.

 

I think it's interesting to know how to achieve different effects with crochet sttiches, and i might be interested in some of this information if it were presented in a way i could understand. But on the whole, it really was simpler for me to learn to knit than to try to wrap my head around ways to make crochet look a little bit like knitting:lol

[magiccrochetfan]

Weeeeellllllll... I tried this technique in lace knitting a time or two. It works! The original blog where I ran across the technique is no longer there but you maybe can imagine from the YH's directions. You have to keep lifelines every several rows and then you tear out ONLY a section where the grievous error is, knit only that section back with extra matching DPNs, and then slip it back onto the main needles.

 

OK, that is totally NOT crochet and is totally off topic, but... couldn't help myself from at least trying to find my cool link — which, sob, is missing!

 

there is an extra http in your link, thought you'd want to know:)

 

i've done this partial ripping back successfully with relatively plain knitting and was quite proud of myself, it felt like managing to walk a tightrope or something I'm pretty sure my head would explode if i ever tried to do it in lace!

I like the solution of duplicate-sttiching, that's ingenious.

[HomekeepingGran]

True. Don't you wish you could drop a stitch on purpose in crochet to fix a mistake 10 rows back like you can in knitting?

Weeeeellllllll... I tried this technique in lace knitting a time or two. It works! The original blog where I ran across the technique is no longer there but you maybe can imagine from the YH's directions. You have to keep lifelines every several rows and then you tear out ONLY a section where the grievous error is, knit only that section back with extra matching DPNs, and then slip it back onto the main needles.

 

OK, that is totally NOT crochet and is totally off topic, but... couldn't help myself from at least trying to find my cool link — which, sob, is missing!

[Granny Square]

True. Don't you wish you could drop a stitch on purpose in crochet to fix a mistake 10 rows back like you can in knitting?

 

I was looking at my copy of that book again. It occurred to me that if I'd never done a slingshot cast on before, I'd have struggled and that's the first step. For those who want visuals on that part, go to knittinghelp.com and look at the video for long tail cast on. The only difference with this crochet technique is, after casting on each stitch, you stop and do the next step in the book, then go back & cast on the next stitch (I don't want to give too much away).

[HomekeepingGran]

I think if one knew a bit about knitting, the book would be easier to understand, as the book talks about casting on and binding off. That's a foreign concept to crocheters, especially binding off.

Several years ago Piecework Magazine had an interesting article about knitting and crochet stitches, how they are formed, their relationships to each other within a piece, and the relative stabilities of the fabrics achieved. Because we are binding off every stitch in crochet (the knitting bind-off technique IS crochet and may readily be done with a hook) crochet work is extremely stable and not very fluid. Knit stitches depend upon one another and share yarns in a different way than crochet does. Hence, knitting has fluidity and stretch.

 

(At least, this is what I got out of it and happen to remember all this time later. I need to look that article back up and re-read.)

[Granny Square]

Hear hear, Jean and Carla.

 

I think if one knew a bit about knitting, the book would be easier to understand, as the book talks about casting on and binding off. That's a foreign concept to crocheters, especially binding off.

 

There is one way you might be able to follow your vintage knit patterns while using a crochet hook, it's called 'knooking'. http://knooking.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/hello-world/ Basically, you are making genuine knit stitches with a hook that has a cable attached to it; the cable acts as the left knitting needle (if you're right handed). The thing is, you have to learn how to form a real knit stitch, and a purl stitch, and read knit patterns which have their own strang language (as crochet has theirs). I tried this briefly, but disliked working stitches off the cable; frankly I thought knitting was easier (although I do use a crochet hook to bind off ).

[HomekeepingGran]

If you really want to make those charming vintage knit patterns, you are going to have to learn to knit (gasp!). There really is no way to make crochet substitute for knitting. Crochet will always be bulkier and will not drape the way knit fabric does. It is not hard to learn to knit. I believe all crocheters should know how to knit, so they can utilize the things knitting does better -- such as ribbing. And that all knitters should learn to crochet for the things crochet does better -- such as finishing and edgings.

 

Many crocheters dream of getting the knit look with crochet. But face it, it's just a dream.

 

Jean Leinhauser

Thank you, Jean! And I would agree that knitters really ought to learn to crochet! (Gasp, again!) If we all knew at least the basics of both maybe some of the silly (IMHO) sniping about one craft or the other would stop. Each has its own strengths and each has its own weaknesses. They compliment and complement each other beautifully as two separate but related yarn techniques. I guess we needed some smart grandmas to teach us all back when we were young, LOL. and

[acraftylady]

A lot of people do tunesian so think you will be fine with that and can get lots of help here if you need it. Mary

[jleinhauser]

If you really want to make those charming vintage knit patterns, you are going to have to learn to knit (gasp!). There really is no way to make crochet substitute for knitting. Crochet will always be bulkier and will not drape the way knit fabric does. It is not hard to learn to knit. I believe all crocheters should know how to knit, so they can utilize the things knitting does better -- such as ribbing. And that all knitters should learn to crochet for the things crochet does better -- such as finishing and edgings.

 

Many crocheters dream of getting the knit look with crochet. But face it, it's just a dream.

 

Jean Leinhauser