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Copyright on flannelghan pattern?


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Wish I could get DH and some friends to read this thread. So many times I've heard "You could sell those"! about something I've made. I explain the pattern was not my own design. "But you could change it a little and say it's yours" No, you can't. I don't really like making things to sell anyway. DH is famous for telling his coworkers "my wife could make that for you". That's when the fun goes out of my hobby.

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I've seen some terms of use that comes across as a 2 paragraph lecture. I prefer short and sweet. I actually didn't buy the pattern because I didn't appreciate the whole 'being lectured and talked down to' in the copyright. Some people get carried away with it.

 

Karen - it almost sounds like you're more concerned with the semantics of it than what it actually states.

 

I'm not talking about clothing. Clothing has it's own set of rules that I'm not real familiar with because I don't design them. This thread is discussing afghans for the most part.

 

I'm not going to 'ask' someone to comply with my wishes. I'm just going to state them. If the item falls under 'art' then it is within my rights to do so. If the item falls within 'useful items' then it'll take a judge to tell me that my copyright ToU is pointless.

 

Anyone with a basic understanding of copyright (and it's lack of enforcement in the inde crochet designer world) knows it's a matter of honor and ethics. For those that don't understand it or don't want to take the time to better educate themselves on the topic - I believe that a simply stated ToU will either be followed or ignored - depending on the person.

 

I've also seen copyrights where the designers asks. They come across as totally unprofessional.

 

Here's a question (another one lol). If all the copyright states is: Copyright 2008. All Rights Reserved; and there is no ToU listed - can you sell the finished product?

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Wish I could get DH and some friends to read this thread. So many times I've heard "You could sell those"! about something I've made. I explain the pattern was not my own design. "But you could change it a little and say it's yours" No, you can't. I don't really like making things to sell anyway. DH is famous for telling his coworkers "my wife could make that for you". That's when the fun goes out of my hobby.

 

I hear ya there - mine too.

 

Right now he has me on baby blanket patrol - way too many babies all at the same time.

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Here's a question (another one lol). If all the copyright states is: Copyright 2008. All Rights Reserved; and there is no ToU listed - can you sell the finished product?

 

There are too many unknown variables here. Even if it were for a clothing item or other "useful" item, there are attorneys who will say if the written instructions were followed, then they could make a case to argue that the finished item could not be sold. There are other attorneys who say they can make a case that the finished item could be sold.

 

Because we are not attorneys and we cannot give legal advice, Crochetville is never going to come out and tell anyone (or allow another person to do so, unless they are a licensed practicing attorney ready to go on the record as giving legal advice) that something definitely is or is not infringement relating to sale of a finished item in a particular situation.

 

If someone wants to state what their opinion is of copyright law (as applicable to a specific country), that's one thing. But they must make very clear they are stating their opinion only. And then I'll come along and urge people to do their own research at the US Copyright Office website and recommend they consult an attorney for an official legal opinion about any specific instance that is of concern to them. If somebody wants to trust their own interpretation of copyright law and make a decision without consulting an attorney, that's their prerogative to do so.

 

Regardless of what a person chooses to do, Crochetville still maintains that a customer should follow a designer's/publisher's wishes regarding any Terms of Use they have claimed, and that if nothing is specifically stated on the pattern or website, the customer needs to ask before selling items made from that pattern. At least that applies if they want to discuss selling their items here. Otherwise, as long as they aren't discussing their sales here or posting links to their site, I'm not going to tell them what they can and cannot do off Crochetville.

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Just to add more to the conversation from another corner of the world.

 

I understand that some designers don't allow people to sell things made from their patterns online but as I'm the other side of the world from you I doubt that I would be stealing a sale.

 

When I shop on eBay I shop on eBay.co.uk, when I use Etsy I look for UK sellers unless its something in digital format.

 

I don't think many people in England(or India or Australia etc) would want to buy toys or dishcloths (for example) all the way from the USA when the cost of postage and customs fees would work out greater than the price paid for the actual product but if someone could make your pattern and sell the end product you'd be getting $s for the sale of the pattern and not losing the sale of the end product.

 

edit to add: I don't actually sell anything I make, I crochet purely for the joy of making stuff

 

 

 

 

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I've seen some terms of use that comes across as a 2 paragraph lecture. I prefer short and sweet. I actually didn't buy the pattern because I didn't appreciate the whole 'being lectured and talked down to' in the copyright. Some people get carried away with it.

 

Karen - it almost sounds like you're more concerned with the semantics of it than what it actually states.

 

Sometimes. Professionally produced sewing patterns print "for personal use" or something to that effect on their patterns, but they don't go to court to try and enforce it, because they can't. Copyright law doesn't protect designs for useful articles (patent law does, if the articles are truly original). Is it ethical to order someone not to do something that they are allowed to do?

 

This whole idea of going to designers and asking for permission to sell items made from patterns is very, very new, and has arisen from the inception of the internet. Many older patterns were published without the slightest reference to the designer. If you have older books and magazines like that, is it ethical to say that "you're not allowed" to sell items without permission which it would be impossible to obtain because there is no way to contact designers and publishers?

 

Remember, too, that attempting to use copyright protection to garner more rights than the law grants could be copyright misuse, which is why stating your wishes and intentions (as the sewing companies do--"for personal use") without making demands seems the wisest course of action.

 

As to your last question, you know the answer is "it depends." :) Do you think you need to contact the publisher of your cookbook before you offer a batch of brownies at your school bake sale?

 

I think it's okay to encourage crafters to seek consent from designers (especially when you know very clearly who they are and how to reach them), but I also think designers should be aware of what rights they actually have in their patterns vs. useful articles made from them, and take that into consideration when they say, "you may not sell hats" or "you may not sell dishcloths." Or "you may not sell my folded-over rectangle" (cell phone case, etc...).

 

Do you think the interests of crafters and designers (I think it extends beyond merely crocheting) are really so opposite? I don't. Without the crafters, the designers would have no one to sell to--without the designers, crafters would have nothing to do. Except make the things from the 110,000 patterns they already have on the shelves...:lol

 

 

 

All information in this post is my own opinion, based on my personal research. By all means, consult a lawyer. Sometimes the copyright office will answer questions, although only general ones, not about specific patterns.

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Well, that's putting things into perspective :yes

 

Well, it's part of what any designer is competing against when they create new patterns and try to sell them--the multitude of patterns already out there, and many of them free. But there will always be a market for really original items--trendy clothing, cute new amis, and so forth...

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