[Red Dog]

I think you are absolutely right I thought the slip stitch would be the way to go.  Thanks so much for your expertise and taking the time to help me.  Have a wonderful day

[Red Dog]

7 minutes ago, Granny Square said:

I don't have the pattern in front of me, but in general a cluster is similar-ish to how you make a decrease 4 DCs into 1.  For a 4 stitch cluster (or decrease of 5 into 1 stitch), there should be 5 loops on your hook until the last step where you YO and pull thru all 5 loops, and then you will be left with 1 loop.

(generic instructions for making a cluster of several stitches into 1, or a decrease of several stitches into 1): You make the first DC, but don't finish the last yarn over and pull thru--this leaves 2 loops on the hook.  (the 1 loop is the one that is always on your hook until you finish off, the second ones belongs to the incomplete DC; so you always have 1 more loop on the hook than you have stitches before completing the last step of combining several stitches into 1)

You make the second DC, in the same incomplete way--this leaves 3 loops on the hook. 

Ditto for the 3rd and 4th DC, you now have 5 loops on the hook  To join them into a cluster, you yarn over and pull thru all the 5 loops.  

In this pattern, the first and second DC are made into the 8th & 9th picots of 1 flower(A), and the third and fourth DCs into the beginning 2 picots around the next flower(B).  So before you even started this transaction, you have 1 loop on your hook. You add 2 more loops as you make 2 partial stitches on picot #8 & 9, and 2 more loops when you make 2 partial stitches in the next 2 picots - that's 5 loops on your hook according to my calculations, 4 from what you just did, plus the one that is always there holding the thread on the hook waiting for you to do the next thing.

This is a whole lot less complicated than it sounds.

Thank you for answering so quickly but what about after you do the clusters its ch 3 join in next picot of same flower, ch3 join in center stitch between picots of next loop repeat 4 times.  What stitch do you use to join

 

[Red Dog]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:11 PM, Granny Square said:

Edited and I deleted a lot of stuff - this pattern is really unusual in that it is basically written to be worked edge first, then re-started in the middle and work toward the edge.  I make a lot of doilies and this is a bit daunting to have them meet up in the middle without issues, at least for me as I'm always tweaking doilies one way or the other to lie flat, due to differences between my stitch tension and the designers'.

It starts by telling you how to make the flowers, and and how join them together to form at the edge of the doily, and then re-start in the middle and work toward the edge if I am reading this right   And I guessed incorrectly earlier about the picot, this picot is worked worked over a chain space, not a DC.

To answer your question about where to put your hook for a picot; I probably do it a different way than others (I learned before the internet, and just sort of settled on a 'spot in the stitch' that looked good to me).  I suggest looking at  some tutorials and playing with it a bit to see what pleases your eye.

 

 

Hello

I have finished both pieces of the doily and the 31st round joining the wreath I just don’t get it. For the 4 dl cluster she says 1 dc in 8th and 9th picot of any flower (I get that) 1 dc in in 1st and 2nd picot ( Iget that) but she says keep last loop of each dc on hook.  How do you have one loop I have 2.  On the next part join in next picot of same flower how should I be joining.  Any help would be appreciated

 

 

 

 

[Red Dog]

2 minutes ago, Granny Square said:

Correct; "SC in next loop' means to stick your hook under the loop and form the SC around the chain space.

Comment; you could also choose to work it in the center chain of the chain space, but I rarely do except for filet (it makes the blocks a little squarer for me); in lace like this, which gets aggressively blocked by me, working around the space, I think makes it a tad sturdier, plus there might be advantages to let it slip around a bit.

Thank you so much for your time and help.  I really appreciate it.

[Red Dog]

So that is where I would put my hook for RD 11 in the chain 3 space

[Red Dog]

I thought I was okay and started to do RD 11 but on the 10 RD it says it says to join in 3rd st of chain so I am supposed to go into the 3rd stitch of the ch 6 and are the 3 chs that are left over considered the next loop for RD 7. I am so confused I just can’t figure it out.  I hope you can help me.  Thank you for your time.

[Red Dog]

12 hours ago, Granny Square said:

Back from appointment.  Sorry my responses are a little haphazard, I answered one question but not the following one.

"I assume where the pattern says join in 3rd st of chain they are referring to the ch 3."  The stuff I was answering above was '3rd stitch from hook for picot".  

Where I am seeing "join in 3rd st of chain", the round started with a chain 3 (which stood in for a DC, so the chain 3 is the 'turning chain', but you aren't turning here).  So it is saying to join the last stitch of the round, to the top of first stitch of the round, which is topmost chain of the initial chain 3.

Thank you so much for all your help.  I got it now. 

[Red Dog]

If you don’t mind I wanted to ask you one more thing.  I assume where the pattern says join in 3rd st of chain they are referring to the ch 3.  

[Red Dog]

So you do make the 2 picots and then ch2.  I was so confused by that.  It’s a beautiful doily I made the 18 flower motifs.  I know you will like it.

Thanks for the help.

[Red Dog]

I am still working on this vintage pattern, with your help I figured out the flower motifs.  I am on the 11th round and it says **Sc in next loop, * Ch 5, sl st in 3rd st from hook for picot, repeat from * once, ch 2, skip next loop, repeat from ** all around, join.  

I understand how to do a picot, and where to go in the loops, but it looks like its telling me to do 2 picots together and then ch 2, it seems simple enough but I am confused.  Thanks in advance for help with this.

 

 

 

 

 

[Red Dog]

14 hours ago, Granny Square said:

Super, thanks for the link!  I've made a few doilies from that  site, but not that one (it wasn't on Ravelry, which is where I looked first).

So for the second motif in the round 7 where you join.  I am fine until I get the ch5 to make another picot it doesn’t look right not sure where I am supposed to put my hook. 

[Red Dog]

I sent the picture but I wanted to say It s the last round 7 where it says 2nd:Motiff.  I am alright until I get to that last 5 part and it does not look right and also when it says ch3 sc in next loop there is a picot in it so do you know where you put the sc.  I have so many questions.  Thank you

 

 

 

 

[Red Dog]

2 hours ago, RED DOG said:

I am making this vintage flower doily.  I was doing fine until I got to round 7.  I dont know I am doing the repeat wrong but when I get to the ch5 it does not look right.  I would also like to know what is considered the center of the doily when you already have a picot in the center of the loop.  The center of the loop is also mentioned in RD 6. If it’s a ch6 are you supposed to sc in the 3rd chain.  I am sending a picture of the instructions.  Any help woul be appreciated.  Thank you

 

[Red Dog]

I am making this vintage flower doily.  I was doing fine until I got to round 7.  I dont know I am doing the repeat wrong but when I get to the ch5 it does not look right.  I would also like to know what is considered the center of the doily when you already have a picot in the center of the loop.  The center of the loop is also mentioned in RD 6. If it’s a ch6 are you supposed to sc in the 3rd chain.  I am sending a picture of the instructions.  Any help woul be appreciated.  Thank you

[Red Dog]

20 hours ago, Granny Square said:

Round 1: The words 'starting at center' is just a sanity check explaining and orienting you to 'where you are'  before starting the first step. Chaining 6 and joining at the ring is the center of the doily that everything will work outward from, and the next round is made around this ring - when it says 'chain 3, DC in  ring' the ch3 takes the place of the first DC, and then 'in ring' means to make the DCs around the ring, meaning you stick the hook under the ring, and when you make put the hook over the ring, pull the yarn from under the ring, up over the ring, and pull the yarn thru.

At the end of round 1, did you end up with the stitch count that it says you should have had (15dc and 5 ch-3sps)?  Because if you didn't, it could throw off round 2, which is one of your questions.

Pasting the instruction and your comment after rnd 2 round so I don't have to scroll:  my notes in red

Rnd 1: (Right side) Starting at center, with pansy color, ch 6, join with sl st to 1st ch to form a ring. Ch3 (counts as first dc now and throughout), 2 dc in ring, ch3, (3 dc in ring, ch3) 4 times; join with sl st to first dc. (15dc and 5 ch-3sps)." this is the stitch count at the end of round one, does this agree with what you have?  The pattern adds up correctly according  to my count.

"Rnd2:  Sl st to ch 3 sp, ch4. (Counts as first tr), 12 tr in same sp, 12 tr in next ch3 sp, sc in center dc of next 3 dc group, (7dc in next ch3 sp, sc in center dc of next ch3 group) 3 times; join with sl st to first tr. ( 26 tr, 21 dc an 4 sc).  I only come up with 25 tr not 26.  Also does it mean to do 12 tr in the ch 4 sp and the next 12 in the ch3 space?"  The "slip stitch to chain 3" is changing the position of the start of the round to a different place than round 1 started.   Just like the center ring, when a pattern says you work into a chain space, it means around the chains that form the space.  You can put a boatload more stitches 'into' a chain, than there are chains so you are correct in your guess that this means 12 TR in the first ch-3 space, and 7 in the next

OK, let me count round 2, starting with the chain 4:

ch4. (Counts as first tr), 1 TR

12 tr in same sp, 12TR

12 tr in next ch3 sp, 12  --  SUBTOTAL OF TRIPLES IS 25 AT THIS POINT

sc in center dc of next 3 dc group, 1 SC

(7dc in next ch3 sp, sc in center dc of next ch3 group) 3 times;  21 dc AND 3 SC 

join with sl st to first tr. ( 26 tr, 21 dc an 4 sc).  My count: 25 TR, 21 DC AND 4 SC

I am off by 1 Triple, and am not spotting it, the same as you.  I don't think that you are supposed to do the chain 4 twice, because that is the 'turning chain.  If this were my pattern, I'd look at the next round in the same way, and see which number would be the right TOTAL count for the next round to go into.  I have also been known to surreptitiously add or subtract a stitch to get a row to add up....you might do what I did and break down the NEXT round and see what it looks like.  

An encouraging note, maybe -- I make a lot of doilies, there are few I don't have to to redesign a little for the purpose of getting them to lie flat, sometimes they ruffle and I have to subtract stitches if it doesn't look like it's going to block out, or subtract stitches if it's cupping.

 

 

My count was correct on round one so on round 2 I just added one more tr and when I did RD 4 it came out perfectly.  Thank you so much for your taking the time to help me.

[Red Dog]

8 minutes ago, Courtney0508 said:

ch 6, join with sl st to 1st ch to form a ring

So you start with that, and that is the center, you will be working from the middle out to make the doily. They didn't actually need to say that, I can see how it would be confusing. I hope that helps.

Thank you very much for that.  Did you see my question about Round 2?  

Sl st to ch-3 sp,ch4 (counts as 1st tr), 12 tr in same space, 12 tr in next ch-3sp, sc in center of next 3 dc group,{ 7dc in next ch-3 sp, sc in center dc of next 3-dc group} 3 times; join with sl st to first tr. (26 tr,21 dc and 4 sc)

I get 25 tr not 26 unless you are supposed to do the ch 4 twice.  What do you think?

Thank you

[Red Dog]

I am making a pansy doily.  This should be so easy but I could you use some help. Rnd 1: (Right side) Starting at center, with pansy color, ch 6, join with sl st to 1st ch to form a ring. Ch3 (counts as first dc now and throughout), 2 dc in ring, ch3, (3 dc in ring, ch3) 4 times; join with sl st to first dc. (15dc and 5 ch-3sps). I get all that except what does it mean starting at center?

Rnd2:  Sl st to ch 3 sp, ch4. (Counts as first tr), 12 tr in same sp, 12 tr in next ch3 sp, sc in center dc of next 3 dc group, (7dc in next ch3 sp, sc in center dc of next ch3 group) 3 times; join with sl st to first tr. ( 26 tr, 21 dc an 4 sc). I only come up with 25 tr not 26.  Also does it mean to do 12 tr in the ch 4 sp and the next 12 in the ch3 space?  I would appreciate any help.

Thank you

[Red Dog]

19 hours ago, Granny Square said:

I agree with Bgs with stitch names NOT being consistent.  I found a few stitches that came up by searching 'loop and lace border crochet', but they were all completely different from each other.

I agree with Bgs, a picture is worth 1000 words; it is OK to share a few lines of a pattern here, just not the whole thing due to copyright laws; or share the link if the pattern is free on the internet.

So I thing I understand that part what about the part where you connect the loops where it shows the weaving illustration.  I wasn’t sure about that.

Thank you

[Red Dog]

1 hour ago, Granny Square said:

I agree with Bgs with stitch names NOT being consistent.  I found a few stitches that came up by searching 'loop and lace border crochet', but they were all completely different from each other.

I agree with Bgs, a picture is worth 1000 words; it is OK to share a few lines of a pattern here, just not the whole thing due to copyright laws; or share the link if the pattern is free on the internet.

I hope you can read these okay.  I understand until I get to round 3.  Thanks for your help

[Red Dog]

Does anyone know how to do the loop and lace stitch for a border?  I am somewhat confused by the instructions.

Thanks 

[Red Dog]

11 minutes ago, Granny Square said:

I agree, this looks like a similar construction concept as the Navajo pattern --  the above note says "do not turn, leave a 4" end of yarn at the start and end of each row for fringe".  

Your pattern uses the unused front loops of certain stitches as a place to put DCs that will sit on top of the fabric, to form the raised teddy bears and hearts.  Cute design!

 

 

Thanks so much for your help.  Have a great day.

[Red Dog]

Here is a photo of the instructions from the link you sent me.  I forgot to put it in my last email.  Please tell me what you think.  I don’t think there are any ch 1’s involved.

Thanks you again

[Red Dog]

I went to that first link you sent and if I understand correctly you end your row with a 4” piece of yarn and then go back to the beginning of the row and start a new row also leaving a piece of fringe so you always working right to left.  So I guess because you are not turning there are no turning chains involved.  Thanks.

[Red Dog]

13 minutes ago, Granny Square said:

I completely forgot about Tunisian.   Your left handed link reminded me of a method that LOOKS like you haven't  turned, which I keep meaning to try.  On the tapestry crochet site, there is a video that shows 2 methods: presumably the same backwards left handed method above, but also a 'purl' method; if I recall correctly you DO turn, but make the stitch a different way so it looks like it was made same side facing.

 

https://www.shadylane.com Here is the link.  It is the Howling Wolf pattern which I have not downloaded yet because I have never crocheted an afghan right side only but I am thinking it might be the first way you suggested. 

Thank you

[Red Dog]

How do you crochet on the right side only without turning?

I would appreciate any help.

Thanks